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Thread: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Last edited by goldendog; 06-01-09 at 07:59 PM.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...R2005110101644
    "We are unable to locate the page you requested.
    The page may have moved or may no longer be available"

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    "We are unable to locate the page you requested.
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    The link has been modified it works now.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    "We are unable to locate the page you requested.
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    and you know that was the silver bullet they needed to prove their case, but the evil neocons sabotaged the website

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    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Central Intelligence Agency | Secret Prisons | Barack Obama | Iraq | Cuba | Washington - Oneindia News


    CIA will 'no longer' operate black sitesFriday, April 10, 2009,15:05 [IST]

    washingtonpost.com

    Washington, Apr 10: The Central Intelligence Agency will 'no longer' operate the secret prisons used by the intelligence agencies to interogate the terror suspects, as per the directions given by the US President Barack Obama, said the agency's director, Leon Panetta on Thursday, Apr 9.

    The secret prisons or the black sites have received criticism from all over the world and from the country itself on the account of gross violation of Human Rights. The revelations that there are secret prison sites overseas in places like Iraq, caused an outrage during Bush administration due to the risk of torture.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    The secret prisons or the black sites have received criticism from all over the world and from the country itself on the account of gross violation of Human Rights. The revelations that there are secret prison sites overseas in places like Iraq, caused an outrage during Bush administration due to the risk of torture.
    These sites received criticisms, mostly based on hyperbole and speculation; but how does this make your case? Or do you even remember what case you are on currently?

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I do agree with you that we do a much better job of policing our own troops, but that is because the U.N. is set up to make sure that responsibility falls on member nations. The U.N. doesn't actually prosecute soldiers serving on U.N. missions. From what I understand, they can pull the troops out of the mission, and even send member nation groups packing altogether. But it is up to the member nation to actually do something about the crimes those troops commit. The U.N. really has no authority in that regard.
    And yet they are responsible for those troops and again in the last case the troops were never brought up on charges by anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    But do you agree that it's absurd that we are the leading nation on the U.N. and we don't hold ourselves to honor the very resolutions that the body drafts?
    I did at one time, but not anymore. The UN has become a cesspool of corruption that tries to undermine the US and especially Israel at every turn. They put out resolutions that they will not enforce, so why bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I mean, what kind of excuse can we possibly make that doesn't make us look like a bunch of hypocrites when we condemn Saddam Hussein for violating human rights yet we will be the first to point out that we are not bound by human rights instruments that we helped draft? And then we blatantly violate those articles in those instruments and say "meh, we aren't obligated here...piss off."
    I agree we come off as hypocrites, no doubt. I think the torturing in any form is absolutely wrong etc.

    What I am tired of is the lets bring the Bush administration up on war crimes charges. Some individual solders violated the accords and a general chooses the wrong words and says "we." Immediately the cries for Bush and company to be up on charges is wringing.

    Fact is the US did not break any international laws for charges to be brought against the administration. I consider what the government did wrong, but this is not a bases for war crimes trials or any such silliness against anyone. Only the solders who perpetrated the acts themselves should be up and charges, and they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And yet they are responsible for those troops and again in the last case the troops were never brought up on charges by anyone.
    That's not the U.N.'s fault though. That's either the host nation or the contributing nation.

    I did at one time, but not anymore. The UN has become a cesspool of corruption that tries to undermine the US and especially Israel at every turn. They put out resolutions that they will not enforce, so why bother?
    But how does that negate international instruments on human rights? It doesn't. The U.N.'s piss poor performance for us to abandon those principles. This isn't about them as much as it is about us living up to our stated principles and values.

    I agree we come off as hypocrites, no doubt. I think the torturing in any form is absolutely wrong etc.
    Agreed.
    What I am tired of is the lets bring the Bush administration up on war crimes charges. Some individual solders violated the accords and a general chooses the wrong words and says "we." Immediately the cries for Bush and company to be up on charges is wringing.
    And some individual soldiers and some individual contractors were acting on orders that were authorized from the top.

    Fact is the US did not break any international laws for charges to be brought against the administration. I consider what the government did wrong, but this is not a bases for war crimes trials or any such silliness against anyone. Only the solders who perpetrated the acts themselves should be up and charges, and they are.
    And I obviously disagree. Starting with the invasion of Iraq.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    That's not the U.N.'s fault though. That's either the host nation or the contributing nation.
    Yes it is. If they do not inforce the accords then they are only worth the paper they were written on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    But how does that negate international instruments on human rights? It doesn't. The U.N.'s piss poor performance for us to abandon those principles. This isn't about them as much as it is about us living up to our stated principles and values.
    No one has said we should abandon our values. But why send our money to a corrupt bureaucratic machine that no longer works?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    And some individual soldiers and some individual contractors were acting on orders that were authorized from the top.
    According to my values it was wrong. According to the accords it was not illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    And I obviously disagree. Starting with the invasion of Iraq.
    I got no problem with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes it is. If they do not inforce the accords then they are only worth the paper they were written on.
    They have no jurisdiction to try or convict these troops. What are they supposed to do but send them home and forward information of the crimes to the governing nation?

    No one has said we should abandon our values. But why send our money to a corrupt bureaucratic machine that no longer works?
    But we are abandoning our values when we torture and treat our captive inhumanely, regardless of belonging to the U.N. or not. And I agree, we shouldn't send them anymore money.


    According to my values it was wrong. According to the accords it was not illegal.
    Based upon the available information, I understand this. I think that Patraeus may have more information than either of us. Maybe he doesn't. I don't know.


    I got no problem with that.
    *insert profound statement here*

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