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Thread: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

  1. #201
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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    This is a false and farcical argument. The US hasn't abandoned its commitment to human rights and this is more bumper sticker rhetoric than anything remotely considered substantive or factual.
    Farcical. Wow who didn't see that literary hand grenade being lobbed?

    No, we have abandoned our commitment to human rights because we have willfully endeavored to torture unarmed, defenseless captives for no justifiable reason.
    Calling our treatment of these detainees barbaric is laughable and makes light of what barbaric treatment truly is.
    No it doesn't, not at all. Your doesn't work here, you should figure that out at some point.

    Farcical.

    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Your arguments claiming the ignorance of those who disagree with you are farcical and taken out of context.

    The Geneva Convention certainly does not apply to these individuals. The argument that by taking this "perceived" high road we will protect our soldiers who may be captured is FALSE and the argument that we tortured these individuals to force confessions is FALSE.
    Farcical. There's one.

    We torture them fishing for information. It's not justifiable and you can't point to any evidence that torture is consistently effective, or even remotely effective.

    Before you make such farcical claims about others on DP, perhaps posting the comments IN CONTEXT would better make your case.

    But again, HONESTY is not the realm of politically challenged Liberals who wallow in lies, distortions and fabrications to support their nonsensical views about economics and foreign policy.
    Bait. Number two.

    Petreaus is certainly entitled to his OPINION;
    You don't know that it's his opinion. You don't know that he doesn't have facts that we have not seen brought to light.
    but what I find amusing and hypocritical is watching Liberals who insulted this man for being the planner behind the SUCCESSFUL surge strategy in Iraq
    Temporary and unsustainable success. The only thing it was successful in doing was temporarily lowering the level of violence, it didn't actually make any major gains against the insurgency. All it did was allow the militias to keep their arms, collect a paycheck. and cement their presence in the areas they occupied.
    now see fit to using him as their poster child for the farcical desire to impugn the previous administration for purely partisan political purposes.
    There's number three. Your point is irrelevant partisan rhetoric anyway.
    Perhaps you Liberals should pay close attention to what Petreaus said in the part of this interview which was NOT quoted in the article and starts at 1:55 and goes like this:

    “Well my thoughts are that its time to quit arguing about the past and take the rear view mirrors off this bus and look to the future.”
    Okay, I saw that. Let's see what your point is.
    But alas, those quotes would not fit into the OBVIOUS partisan agenda of those who continue to make such farcical arguments for purely partisan purposes.
    Ah, alas there was no real point at all. But wait...bonus...

    IT'S A FARCICAL FOUR PLAY!!!!



    So aside from all your partisan deflection, how do you reconcile Petraeus' comments?
    *insert profound statement here*

  3. #203
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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I guess you missed this part of the Principles:

    Scope of the Body of Principles
    These principles apply for the protection of all persons under any form of detention or imprisonment.

    Use of Terms

    For the purposes of the Body of Principles:

    (a) "Arrest" means the act of apprehending a person for the alleged commission of an offence or by the action of an authority;


    Doesn't apply here; these were people apprehended either on the battlefield and suspected of terrorist acts, at terrorist training camps or in the heat of a fire fight.

    (b) "Detained person" means any person deprived of personal liberty except as a result of conviction for an offence;

    Doesn't apply; no one was "detained:" as a result of a conviction.

    (c) "Imprisoned person" means any person deprived of personal liberty as a result of conviction for an offence;

    Doesn't apply; no one was "imprisoned:" as a result of a conviction or an offence.

    (d) "Detention" means the condition of detained persons as defined above;

    (e) "Imprisonment" means the condition of imprisoned persons as defined above;

    (f) The words "a judicial or other authority" means a judicial or other authority under the law whose status and tenure should afford the strongest possible guarantees of competence, impartiality and independence.

    But then again, water boarding as was conducted by the US on a few of these detainees for the purpose of saving lives, does not fit the definition of torture under UN guidelines either.

    So if we decide to use standard criminal law and habeas corpus as it relates to these dangerous individuals of which there is no "traditional" criminal proof and end up releasing them back to where they came and they commit more heinous murders against us, are you okay with that?

    The reason Obama has followed the Bush doctrine is because he knows these REALITIES and now, rather than just being a candidate, if these thugs go free because of some false notions about what is meant by "detainees" they do murder again, as President he will be responsible.

    What Obama is finding out is that it is much easier hurling spurious campaign rhetoric when you are merely a campaigner than it is actually being the President and having the lives of your citizens as your personal responsibility.

    You on the other hand are completely free to continue hurling your false spurious venom at those you happen to disagree with politically. It’s your right; just remember that when you do so in a vacuum of the FACTS and REALITY, your BS will be called.
    Please use the QUOTE tool. I don't have the time to go caving looking for where you hid you replies.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Didn't the General's time in Iraq emcompass almost the entire time that this rampant rightous torture was taking place? Wouldn't the General have first hand knowledge of exactly how much "actionable intelligence" was gained from these unlawful techniques? DURING HIS TIME IN IRAQ???
    First you are wrong regarding this absurd notion of "rampant" torture taking place or that it was IN Iraq and secondly; he would have ZERO knowledge regarding the interrogation of "detainees" outside of his control by the CIA.

    These Generals are mostly embarrassed by the illegal actions of the troops under their command and what occurred at Abu Ghraib.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    This is a false and farcical argument. The US hasn't abandoned its commitment to human rights and this is more bumper sticker rhetoric than anything remotely considered substantive or factual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Farcical. Wow who didn't see that literary hand grenade being lobbed?

    No, we have abandoned our commitment to human rights because we have willfully endeavored to torture unarmed, defenseless captives for no justifiable reason.
    Your trite condescension’s aside; this is of course your OPINION which cannot be substantiated by the FACTS.

    Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    Calling our treatment of these detainees barbaric is laughable and makes light of what barbaric treatment truly is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    No it doesn't, not at all. Your doesn't work here, you should figure that out at some point.

    Farcical.

    The only one spinning here is you with your desperate assertions about barbaric treatment of detainees; but since when did you ever let the FACTS deter you in your hyperbolic rhetoric right?

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Please use the QUOTE tool. I don't have the time to go caving looking for where you hid you replies.
    I will BOLD and increase the font size to make it easier for you then:

    I guess you missed this part of the Principles:

    Scope of the Body of Principles
    These principles apply for the protection of all persons under any form of detention or imprisonment.

    Use of Terms

    For the purposes of the Body of Principles:

    (a) "Arrest" means the act of apprehending a person for the alleged commission of an offence or by the action of an authority;


    Doesn't apply here; these were people apprehended either on the battlefield and suspected of terrorist acts, at terrorist training camps or in the heat of a fire fight.

    (b) "Detained person" means any person deprived of personal liberty except as a result of conviction for an offence;

    Doesn't apply; no one was "detained:" as a result of a conviction.

    (c) "Imprisoned person" means any person deprived of personal liberty as a result of conviction for an offence;

    Doesn't apply; no one was "imprisoned:" as a result of a conviction or an offence.

    (d) "Detention" means the condition of detained persons as defined above;

    (e) "Imprisonment" means the condition of imprisoned persons as defined above;

    (f) The words "a judicial or other authority" means a judicial or other authority under the law whose status and tenure should afford the strongest possible guarantees of competence, impartiality and independence.

    But then again, water boarding as was conducted by the US on a few of these detainees for the purpose of saving lives, does not fit the definition of torture under UN guidelines either.

    So if we decide to use standard criminal law and habeas corpus as it relates to these dangerous individuals of which there is no "traditional" criminal proof and end up releasing them back to where they came and they commit more heinous murders against us, are you okay with that?

    The reason Obama has followed the Bush doctrine is because he knows these REALITIES and now, rather than just being a candidate, if these thugs go free because of some false notions about what is meant by "detainees" they do murder again, as President he will be responsible.

    What Obama is finding out is that it is much easier hurling spurious campaign rhetoric when you are merely a campaigner than it is actually being the President and having the lives of your citizens as your personal responsibility.

    You on the other hand are completely free to continue hurling your false spurious venom at those you happen to disagree with politically. It’s your right; just remember that when you do so in a vacuum of the FACTS and REALITY, your BS will be called

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    First you are wrong regarding this absurd notion of "rampant" torture taking place or that it was IN Iraq and secondly; he would have ZERO knowledge regarding the interrogation of "detainees" outside of his control by the CIA.

    These Generals are mostly embarrassed by the illegal actions of the troops under their command and what occurred at Abu Ghraib.
    Dreaming that Abu Ghraib is the only problem that these Generals are worried about is a problem TD...do you get it?

    Inspectors Find More Torture at Iraqi Jails abuse prison


    Monday 24 April 2006

    US pledge to protect prisoners 'not being followed.'
    Baghdad - Last Nov. 13, U.S. soldiers found 173 incarcerated men, some of them emaciated and showing signs of torture, in a secret bunker in an Interior Ministry compound in central Baghdad. The soldiers immediately transferred the men to a separate detention facility to protect them from further abuse, the U.S. military reported.

    Since then, there have been at least six joint U.S.-Iraqi inspections of detention centers, most of them run by Iraq's Shiite Muslim-dominated Interior Ministry. Two sources involved with the inspections, one Iraqi official and one U.S. official, said abuse of prisoners was found at all the sites visited through February. U.S. military authorities confirmed that signs of severe abuse were observed at two of the detention centers.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Dreaming that Abu Ghraib is the only problem that these Generals are worried about is a problem TD...do you get it?

    Inspectors Find More Torture at Iraqi Jails abuse prison


    Monday 24 April 2006

    US pledge to protect prisoners 'not being followed.'
    Baghdad - Last Nov. 13, U.S. soldiers found 173 incarcerated men, some of them emaciated and showing signs of torture, in a secret bunker in an Interior Ministry compound in central Baghdad. The soldiers immediately transferred the men to a separate detention facility to protect them from further abuse, the U.S. military reported.

    Since then, there have been at least six joint U.S.-Iraqi inspections of detention centers, most of them run by Iraq's Shiite Muslim-dominated Interior Ministry. Two sources involved with the inspections, one Iraqi official and one U.S. official, said abuse of prisoners was found at all the sites visited through February. U.S. military authorities confirmed that signs of severe abuse were observed at two of the detention centers.
    did you miss the bolded part
    are you really going to blame America for abuse commited by Iraqi's

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  9. #209
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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Dreaming that Abu Ghraib is the only problem that these Generals are worried about is a problem TD...do you get it?

    Inspectors Find More Torture at Iraqi Jails abuse prison


    Monday 24 April 2006

    US pledge to protect prisoners 'not being followed.'
    Baghdad - Last Nov. 13, U.S. soldiers found 173 incarcerated men, some of them emaciated and showing signs of torture, in a secret bunker in an Interior Ministry compound in central Baghdad. The soldiers immediately transferred the men to a separate detention facility to protect them from further abuse, the U.S. military reported.

    Since then, there have been at least six joint U.S.-Iraqi inspections of detention centers, most of them run by Iraq's Shiite Muslim-dominated Interior Ministry. Two sources involved with the inspections, one Iraqi official and one U.S. official, said abuse of prisoners was found at all the sites visited through February. U.S. military authorities confirmed that signs of severe abuse were observed at two of the detention centers.
    Now you are attributing Iraqi abuses to us? Not only are you way off topic, but you are wallowing in the circle of futility desperately flailing about searching for a purpose.

    Carry on.

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    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    did you miss the bolded part
    are you really going to blame America for abuse commited by Iraqi's
    Are you suggesting that the Bush Administration allowed these detainees to be held in prisons that they had no control over? That they were sent there to be treated however the Iraqi's wanted to treat them with no input what so ever from Bush and Cheney's interrogators?

    "MOST" means not all..what about the one's that were acting directy under Bush and Cheney's oversight?

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