Page 18 of 23 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 222

Thread: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

  1. #171
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Whitewater, CO
    Last Seen
    04-05-16 @ 06:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,260
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The only problem I have with this is that the Geneva conventions only apply to uniformed solders representing a government. Or at least that is what I have been lead to believe all these years.

    Terrorists do not have the protection of the Geneva Convention. So why is the general trying to say we did?

    Because he's kissing the ass of a liberal president.

  2. #172
    Every day I'm hustlin'..
    Lerxst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nationwide...
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,388

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    So the next time we all get on the "anti-U.N." bandwagon we should keep in mind that we are part of the problem, a big part of the problem, when we won't honor the very resolutions the body drafts. Well except ones that forward our own interests I guess.
    *insert profound statement here*

  3. #173
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,491

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    All civilians are protected by the Geneva Conventions.
    I was not talking about civilians at all. I was talking about armed attackers not attached to any foriegn power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Petrayus didn't say how we violated the Geneva Conventions he just said that we have, and we have IE when those soldiers raped and killed that little Iraqi girl.
    Solders are going to break laws just like their civilian counter parts. Individual acts of military personal not under orders do not represent the US or it's government in these actions. So this is covered by civilian law or the UCMJ, not the United Nations or any such tribunal under the Geneva Accords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Moreover, all detainees are entitled to the protections of Common Article 3 which was clearly violated at Abu Ghraib.
    I do not think that article 3 covers the detainees only because they are not considered "members of armed forces" or civilians.

    It is also stated...

    "Furthermore, although the Convention, as a concession to legal form, provides that in certain circumstances a Contracting Power may legally be released from its obligations, its spirit encourages the Power [p.27] in question to persevere in applying humanitarian principles, whatever the attitude of the adverse Party may be."

    So according to the Accords themselves, I don't see any clear violation by the government. Just some detestable acts by some misled and detestable solders acting on their own.

    PS The torture allegations by our government are true, but again I don't think the accord covers them in this.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-01-09 at 12:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #174
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,491

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    So the next time we all get on the "anti-U.N." bandwagon we should keep in mind that we are part of the problem, a big part of the problem, when we won't honor the very resolutions the body drafts. Well except ones that forward our own interests I guess.
    I actually agree here to a point. I think the UN is a joke, and we should have dropped out 10 years ago.

    "UN troops have had a shameful record in recent years, having been implicated in everything from rape and robbery to weapons trafficking and enslavement. So perhaps this should come as no surprise: - Cronaca: UN peacekeepers: cultural crime, too

    "A 13-year-old girl, "Elizabeth" described to the BBC how 10 UN peacekeepers gang-raped her in a field near her Ivory Coast home.

    'Elizabeth' tells the BBC about her abuse
    "They grabbed me and threw me to the ground and they forced themselves on me... I tried to escape but there were 10 of them and I could do nothing," she said.

    "I was terrified. Then they just left me there bleeding."

    No action has been taken against the soldiers.
    " - Rochester IMC: UN Atrocities: UN peacekeepers rape children

    I can say at least in the US, we try to police our own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #175
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    So the next time we all get on the "anti-U.N." bandwagon we should keep in mind that we are part of the problem, a big part of the problem, when we won't honor the very resolutions the body drafts. Well except ones that forward our own interests I guess.
    General Assembly resolutions aren't worth the paper they're printed on, the only resolutions that are binding and have the force of international law are UNSC resolutions.

  6. #176
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I was not talking about civilians at all. I was talking about armed attackers not attached to any foriegn power.
    Fair enough.

    Solders are going to break laws just like their civilian counter parts. Individual acts of military personal not under orders do not represent the US or it's government in these actions. So this is covered by civilian law or the UCMJ, not the United Nations or any such tribunal under the Geneva Accords.
    Yes we try our own that doesn't mean that individual soldiers can't violate the Geneva Conventions.

    I do not think that article 3 covers the detainees only because they are not considered "members of armed forces" or civilians.

    It is also stated...

    "Furthermore, although the Convention, as a concession to legal form, provides that in certain circumstances a Contracting Power may legally be released from its obligations, its spirit encourages the Power [p.27] in question to persevere in applying humanitarian principles, whatever the attitude of the adverse Party may be."

    So according to the Accords themselves, I don't see any clear violation by the government. Just some detestable acts by some misled and detestable solders acting on their own.
    Well I would tend to agree but in so far as the SCOTUS's interpretation of "not of an international character" in the Hamdan case is laughable as it was clearly meant to apply only to civil wars. However, due to their interpretation of "not of an international character" and the following paragraph:

    (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

    International Humanitarian Law - Third 1949 Geneva Convention

    All detainees are entitled to limited GC protections.

  7. #177
    You kids get off my lawn!
    Glinda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    06-11-11 @ 02:01 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,716

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    He made a statement he should have at least given example's of what part of the accord we have violated to make the type of sttaement he did was just wrong.
    Interesting.

    You clearly believe that what someone should or should not do - vs. what they actually did or did not do, legally or otherwise - is of greater importance.

    You realize you've just destroyed your own argument, right?
    Last edited by Glinda; 06-01-09 at 11:26 AM.

  8. #178
    Every day I'm hustlin'..
    Lerxst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nationwide...
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,388

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I actually agree here to a point. I think the UN is a joke, and we should have dropped out 10 years ago.

    "UN troops have had a shameful record in recent years, having been implicated in everything from rape and robbery to weapons trafficking and enslavement. So perhaps this should come as no surprise: - Cronaca: UN peacekeepers: cultural crime, too

    "A 13-year-old girl, "Elizabeth" described to the BBC how 10 UN peacekeepers gang-raped her in a field near her Ivory Coast home.

    'Elizabeth' tells the BBC about her abuse
    "They grabbed me and threw me to the ground and they forced themselves on me... I tried to escape but there were 10 of them and I could do nothing," she said.

    "I was terrified. Then they just left me there bleeding."

    No action has been taken against the soldiers.
    " - Rochester IMC: UN Atrocities: UN peacekeepers rape children

    I can say at least in the US, we try to police our own.
    I do agree with you that we do a much better job of policing our own troops, but that is because the U.N. is set up to make sure that responsibility falls on member nations. The U.N. doesn't actually prosecute soldiers serving on U.N. missions. From what I understand, they can pull the troops out of the mission, and even send member nation groups packing altogether. But it is up to the member nation to actually do something about the crimes those troops commit. The U.N. really has no authority in that regard.

    But do you agree that it's absurd that we are the leading nation on the U.N. and we don't hold ourselves to honor the very resolutions that the body drafts? I mean, what kind of excuse can we possibly make that doesn't make us look like a bunch of hypocrites when we condemn Saddam Hussein for violating human rights yet we will be the first to point out that we are not bound by human rights instruments that we helped draft? And then we blatantly violate those articles in those instruments and say "meh, we aren't obligated here...piss off."
    *insert profound statement here*

  9. #179
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Why do you think we honor the Geneva Convention? Only because we don't want our troops tortured or because torturing anyone is wrong? Do we champion human rights all the time or only part of the time?

    So many ignorant individuals on this forum have described those opposed to torture or calling for the U.S. to take the moral high road as being "weak kneed" and we "didn't have the stomach to do what it takes." They challenged us as being out of touch with reality when we talked about fighting the good fight and doing what's right.

    So I just have to ask this, given General Patraeus' comments in this article: Is the good General "weak kneed?" Because he calls for us to embrace our values and abide by our promises regarding our commitments to honor Geneva convention (which he clearly states we violated), does he not have the stomach to do what needs to be done?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Why do you think we honor the Geneva Convention? Only because we don't want our troops tortured or because torturing anyone is wrong? Do we champion human rights all the time or only part of the time?

    So many ignorant individuals on this forum have described those opposed to torture or calling for the U.S. to take the moral high road as being "weak kneed" and we "didn't have the stomach to do what it takes." They challenged us as being out of touch with reality when we talked about fighting the good fight and doing what's right.

    So I just have to ask this, given General Patraeus' comments in this article: Is the good General "weak kneed?" Because he calls for us to embrace our values and abide by our promises regarding our commitments to honor Geneva convention (which he clearly states we violated), does he not have the stomach to do what needs to be done?
    Your arguments claiming the ignorance of those who disagree with you are farcical and taken out of context.

    The Geneva Convention certainly does not apply to these individuals. The argument that by taking this "perceived" high road we will protect our soldiers who may be captured is FALSE and the argument that we tortured these individuals to force confessions is FALSE.

    Before you make such farcical claims about others on DP, perhaps posting the comments IN CONTEXT would better make your case.

    But again, HONESTY is not the realm of politically challenged Liberals who wallow in lies, distortions and fabrications to support their nonsensical views about economics and foreign policy.

    Petreaus is certainly entitled to his OPINION; but what I find amusing and hypocritical is watching Liberals who insulted this man for being the planner behind the SUCCESSFUL surge strategy in Iraq now see fit to using him as their poster child for the farcical desire to impugn the previous administration for purely partisan political purposes.

    Perhaps you Liberals should pay close attention to what Petreaus said in the part of this interview which was NOT quoted in the article and starts at 1:55 and goes like this:

    “Well my thoughts are that its time to quit arguing about the past and take the rear view mirrors off this bus and look to the future.”

    But alas, those quotes would not fit into the OBVIOUS partisan agenda of those who continue to make such farcical arguments for purely partisan purposes.

  10. #180
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ventura California
    Last Seen
    11-15-11 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,706

    Re: "US violated Geneva Conventions" - Gen Petraeus

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Funny how the supporters of the Iraq war claim that it is a legal war and then say the enemies we capture are not prisoners of war and subject to the protections of the GC. That's like saying you're a murderer but then the people you kill are not victims and shouldn't be counted in your trial. I love it when people play with words.
    I think it is even more funny how the anti-war crowd fabricate their arguments to support their farcical claims about the reasons to go to war and what constitutes torture for purely partisan political purposes.

    Have you read the Geneva Conventions? No, because if you had you wouldn't make such farcical remarks.

    Do you understand the difference between a war against another nation who is party to the Geneva Conventions using UNIFORMED miltary to fight us and a terrorist group who uses non-uniformed combatants and tactics that use civilians as a shield? No, because if you had you wouldn't make such farcical remarks.

    The only one's “playing with words” here, coining your terminology, are Liberals like you who think that bumper stickers are a good way to argue foreign policy and that by falsely impugning political opponents in the court of public opinion for purely partisan political purposes is a good political strategy; but alas, they are both merely representative of a massive level of gross ignorance and denial.

Page 18 of 23 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •