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Thread: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I womder:
    How many of the liberals that slandered General Betray-us feel pretty stupid right now...?
    I'm not sure you'll get an answer here. How many members on this board are members of MoveOn?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I womder:
    How many of the liberals that slandered General Betray-us feel pretty stupid right now...?
    The same number as that of those who thought Colin Powell was a war criminal.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Woah there. I, and many of us on the left, found the add disgraceful. It is also the same kind of thing that Rush, Newt and Coulter say about those of us on the left, so spare me your outrage until you start to challenge what those say. Outrage only when it is convenient is incredibly phony.
    I'm not given to watching Rush or Coulter so I can't tell you what they say. I have great respect for Newt, however, and am not inclined to disagree with his well reasoned assessments as I tend to agree with him.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Well, having worked with GEN Petreaus, let me be VERY clear. He will not come out in support, even in a general way, on something that was haphazard and ill concieved.

    So, either GEN PEtreaus is a complete idiot, or there is some kind of deliberate planning and decisin making process going on.

    Again, how do you provide specific details about such things as facilities when the cases are still being adjudicated and we do not know how many will be rendered to trail, released, returned to their home countries, etc.?

    Each of these prisoners will require his own plan, and only those who are retained in custody for trail will have general, centralized planning that you are demanding.

    That these delineations are being made, mentioned in the press and in Obama's speech, is very much indicative of a deliberate planning process.

    If you still don't think so? Well, I would say you are after something else at this point.
    So you still do not see the difference in a "process" and a "plan?"

    Again, the false premise of the thread was that Petreaus endorsed Obama's "plan" to close Gitmo. Yet nothing in the article provided suggested anything of the sort and as WE both agree there is NO plan, he could not possibly have endorsed it.


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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    What Petraeus is endorsing is the idea that GITMO should be closed. Obama has the "plan" to close GITMO and even requested funds. What I have fialed to see, which I see as a negative on Obama's part, is a detailed plan on HOW to close GITMO and what funds will specifically be needed. It's great to say "Gitmo should be closed and I need money to do it", but what is needed is exactly HOW gitmo should be closed and WHERE exactly funds will be needed and spent.

    This is exactly why the Democrats in the senate denied is funding. Obama failed to provide a detailed plan of HOW and only continuously states WHY.
    You need funds to close something? Hmmm..

    You might need funds to build a new facility? If we move them to a supermax .... umm, not a whole lot of additional construction costs there.

    That also doesn't perclude the possibility of asking for the funds again when they can get into the eachs:

    X are returning to Yemen
    Y to Saudi Arabia
    Z to a neutral country
    A requires compensation because he was incacerated under false pretenses
    B will be moved to supermax, and here are the charges they will face.

    That is a process, at the end of which you get a detailed plan. However, as the plan firms up, in Washington, with political hacks more interested in embarassing their counter-parts across the aisle than in doing sound business for America, there are likely not going to be many leaks about how fare along said plan is until key leaders in Congress, and in effected states, are brought on board.

    After all, if the govenor of say, Colorado goes ballistic at the idea of these prisoners being moved to his state, seeking alternate locations is a good idea.

    Also, there are likely to be what we call courses of action in the planning process. There are many potential solutions, but as the pieces are vetted with those key leaders the process widdles itself down into the 'plan' which is at that point a decision.

    You really think that the military planner at gitmo will ignore the Presidents orders to close gitmo? That they are not conducting any planning with the larger joint staff to fulfill the Commander in Chiefs directive?

    If what you think is true, we have constitutional crisis on our hands.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    You need funds to close something? Hmmm..

    You might need funds to build a new facility? If we move them to a supermax .... umm, not a whole lot of additional construction costs there.

    That also doesn't perclude the possibility of asking for the funds again when they can get into the eachs:

    X are returning to Yemen
    Y to Saudi Arabia
    Z to a neutral country
    A requires compensation because he was incacerated under false pretenses
    B will be moved to supermax, and here are the charges they will face.

    That is a process, at the end of which you get a detailed plan. However, as the plan firms up, in Washington, with political hacks more interested in embarassing their counter-parts across the aisle than in doing sound business for America, there are likely not going to be many leaks about how fare along said plan is until key leaders in Congress, and in effected states, are brought on board.

    After all, if the govenor of say, Colorado goes ballistic at the idea of these prisoners being moved to his state, seeking alternate locations is a good idea.

    Also, there are likely to be what we call courses of action in the planning process. There are many potential solutions, but as the pieces are vetted with those key leaders the process widdles itself down into the 'plan' which is at that point a decision.

    You really think that the military planner at gitmo will ignore the Presidents orders to close gitmo? That they are not conducting any planning with the larger joint staff to fulfill the Commander in Chiefs directive?

    If what you think is true, we have constitutional crisis on our hands.
    Obama hasn't made any declaration to close Gitmo. He has only said it should be closed and requested funds to assist the closing. Which were denied by the Senate.

    Yes you need funds to close something. It takes manpower and transportation costs to move the prisoners, equipment, and any other materials at the facility, and setup a permanent home for all these things else where.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 05-29-09 at 04:41 PM.
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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What plan?

    Can you link to this plan?


    What does this plan entail?
    I would say it's the plan that the Department of Justice is working on that Petraeus spoke of. That would be the plan.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I womder:
    How many of the liberals that slandered General Betray-us feel pretty stupid right now...?

    you have nothing to say on-topic?

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How did a thread on Gitmo and Petraeus become a thread on MoveOn? Ah yes, our right wing friends need to change the subject to something they are more comfortable with.
    Yes they have a serious need to change the subject off of the OP and shift the topic to Moveon.org.

    I suggest they start a thread about that after they comment on the Four star Generals stance on agreeing with President Obama concering the closing of Gitmo and the reasons for it.

    Perteaus was the "surge hero" just four months ago and deserves respect.

    Does the right still support the troops and thier views?
    Last edited by goldendog; 05-29-09 at 04:45 PM.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    You need funds to close something? Hmmm..
    Yes you do. Demobilization of troops costs money. Relocation of prisoners costs money. Relocation of equipment costs money. Removal and disposal of equipment or supplies costs money.

    Money that is line item approved for operational purchases is fairly specific in what it can be used for. There is some latitude in shifting a line item to another, but not in creating entire redeployment plans.
    *insert profound statement here*

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