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Thread: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Why don't you do everyone a HUGE favor and post a link that details all this out in the executive order Obama signed that put together a TEAM to EXAMINE HOW to close Gitmo within a year.

    Then while you are at it, please tell us how this translates to a plan to actually close Gitmo and where Obama has NOT already reversed himself on several of his campaign "claims/promises."

    I look forward to seeing EVIDENCE of this "plan." But just to be sure we are all on the same page; here is what a plan means:

    Main Entry: plan !plan
    Pronunciation: \ ˈplan \
    Function: noun
    Etymology: French, plane, foundation, ground plan; partly from Latin planum level ground, from neuter of planus level; partly from French planter to plant, fix in place, from Late Latin plantare - More at - floor, plant
    Date: 1706
    Results

    1. a drawing or diagram drawn on a plane: as a. a top or horizontal view of an object b. a large-scale map of a small area

    2 a. a method for achieving an end b. an often customary method of doing something : procedure c. a detailed formulation of a program of action d. goal aim

    3. an orderly arrangement of parts of an overall design or objective

    4. a detailed program (as for payment or the provision of some service) - pension plan


    Again, a plan is not speculative rhetoric, a campaign pledge or an executive order establishing a commission to study something to formulate a plan.

    Well, I can do that right after you show me Bush's detailed plan as well.

    However, as a porfessional military officer who has made a few plans, I can tell you that evidence of a plan, and certainly a deliberate decision making process, is moving on gitmo.

    I certainly cannot provide you with THE operations order for teh changes in Afghanistan, but I can gleen that the center of gravity is securing Kabul and key cities in the country through the elections. That our soldiers are being shifted to locations either in, or next to, remote population center from which to conduct operations and build relationships with the indigenous population, and that we are shifting a great deal of our kinetic focus into advisory roles for systems (hence Gates's call for more civilians) and security forces (more advisors).

    I also think that GEN McKiernan's resistence to these changes got him the boot.

    I of course cannot provide you with a copy of these plans or the inner workings of the decision to fire McKiernan, but I am fairly certain that this doesn't mean there is not plan or deliberate decision making going on.

    Tell you what, you prove to me that no one in the Obama administration is conducting any planning on this one. Can you?

    You got any documents from white house staffers saying, "Obama, he's just talking! There is no plan!!!"

    Figure it out.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Why not try the White House web site? barrackobama.com? You tell me.
    I have been to the site and it contains little substance and nothing specific. perhaps you can help find this proverbial "plan" which I cannot seem to locate?

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I have been to the site and it contains little substance and nothing specific. perhaps you can help find this proverbial "plan" which I cannot seem to locate?
    If he told you, he'd have to kill you.

    Op Sec.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    My bad, I did not realize you all considered yourselves "kooks"..... Thought i made a distinction there. You all incorrectly infered "all"....
    You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und
    SO "betrayus" is now in vogue for the kook leftists
    That looks to imply that the left are kooks. I fully admit there are kooks on the left, and on the right. I have also repeatedly complained that we should not hold all of the left, nor the right, responsible for those kooks. I find it sad when you, or anyone, decides to dodge an issue by bringing up something one of those kooks does.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Well, I can do that right after you show me Bush's detailed plan as well.

    However, as a porfessional military officer who has made a few plans, I can tell you that evidence of a plan, and certainly a deliberate decision making process, is moving on gitmo.

    I certainly cannot provide you with THE operations order for teh changes in Afghanistan, but I can gleen that the center of gravity is securing Kabul and key cities in the country through the elections. That our soldiers are being shifted to locations either in, or next to, remote population center from which to conduct operations and build relationships with the indigenous population, and that we are shifting a great deal of our kinetic focus into advisory roles for systems (hence Gates's call for more civilians) and security forces (more advisors).

    I also think that GEN McKiernan's resistence to these changes got him the boot.

    I of course cannot provide you with a copy of these plans or the inner workings of the decision to fire McKiernan, but I am fairly certain that this doesn't mean there is not plan or deliberate decision making going on.

    Tell you what, you prove to me that no one in the Obama administration is conducting any planning on this one. Can you?

    You got any documents from white house staffers saying, "Obama, he's just talking! There is no plan!!!"

    Figure it out.
    So in other words, you cannot provide the "plan" to close Gitmo because it does not exist. Thank you for admitting there is NO plan and therefore Petreaus cannot possibly endorse Obama's plan because there isn't one.

    In addition, this is just a LOT of speculation on your part.

    Thank you for clarifying this for us; it helps advance the debate in a productive manner and refutes the premise of the threads author.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If he told you, he'd have to kill you.

    Op Sec.
    I am sure if he knew, he would not have to SECULATE so much in his false assertion that there is a plan.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    A lot of people are saying that Guantanamo is the best place for Muslim prisoners because it is all geared towards Muslims. They have certain times and places for prayer and they are given courtesies that US mainland prisons don't give.

    The weather is gorgeous and all your fellow prisoners are the same religion. Why would they want to go somewhere else? It seems it would solve everything if they just stayed where they are and everybody got over it. Nobody wants them.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's not "ours". It's his and the Republican party's successes. The democrats spent so many years preaching messages of defeat in desperate attempts to get elected that they missed the "ours" bus a long time ago.
    tell you what jall, having been a part of the process of turning that burning ship around, there was very little 'Republican' support for Petreaus.

    Had the Republicans continued to support GEN Casey, whom Bush promoted for some reason, we would no longer be in Iraq.

    GEN Petreaus fundamentally changed the way we did business in Iraq, and this business about it being democrat and republican is about as far wide of te mark as you can get.

    From GEN Petreaus, who was asked about the differences between the then candidates, his response was telling, "There is only a certain amount of room that either candidate has for manuever in theater. Whichever is elected, the resulting policies will likely look largely the same."

    His point being that, even if the order were given to withdrawal, that would still take several years to be done orderly, and that efforts to professionalize and stabilize Iraq could not simply be abandoned without catastrophic costs that neither man would likely bear.

    He was right. Not the Republican or the Democrats.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    So in other words, you cannot provide the "plan" to close Gitmo because it does not exist. Thank you for admitting there is NO plan and therefore Petreaus cannot possibly endorse Obama's plan because there isn't one.

    In addition, this is just a LOT of speculation on your part.

    Thank you for clarifying this for us; it helps advance the debate in a productive manner and refutes the premise of the threads author.
    It is speculation based on what has been released in the press and was in Obama's last speech.

    Again, detailed plans about sensitive issues are not exactly posted on the internet, nor should they be. That they aren't doesn't mean that a plan doesn't exist.

    Did you see the orders that changed Iraq? I did, they are nevertheless classified and I cannot release them to you.

    Must not be a plan then?

    Ahem, still waiting for the Bush plan. I would hate to think that we HAD NO PLAN for eight years and gitmo happened without any coherent thought process whatsoever. (Which may have been the case when you peel the onion back anyway).
    Last edited by gree0232; 05-29-09 at 04:05 PM.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    tell you what jall, having been a part of the process of turning that burning ship around, there was very little 'Republican' support for Petreaus.

    Had the Republicans continued to support GEN Casey, whom Bush promoted for some reason, we would no longer be in Iraq.

    GEN Petreaus fundamentally changed the way we did business in Iraq, and this business about it being democrat and republican is about as far wide of te mark as you can get.

    From GEN Petreaus, who was asked about the differences between the then candidates, his response was telling, "There is only a certain amount of room that either candidate has for manuever in theater. Whichever is elected, the resulting policies will likely look largely the same."

    His point being that, even if the order were given to withdrawal, that would still take several years to be done orderly, and that efforts to professionalize and stabilize Iraq could not simply be abandoned without catastrophic costs that neither man would likely bear.

    He was right. Not the Republican or the Democrats.
    Yet, his vocal opposition was from democrats. I do love to read these fairy tales you create in an effort to diminish the sordid behavior of the democrats toward Petreaus by making it seem as if Republicans were doing the same. Entertaining. Really.

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