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Thread: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How did a thread on Gitmo and Petraeus become a thread on MoveOn? Ah yes, our right wing friends need to change the subject to something they are more comfortable with.
    Umm, it could be that how Petreaus was treated was one of the biggest scandals last year and the two are now permanently tied together...

    Or it could be because we still trust in Petreaus's opinions and so there is really nothing to discuss here except how those who don't trust in his opinions feel about it.

    Why are you so uncomfortable talking about it if they don't really speak for you?

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, that was Disneydude.



    my bad, I get so confused sometimes.
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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    A Plan? Are you seriously saying that you do not see evidence of a plan?

    Lets take a look at Gitmo. The order is pretty specific: it will be closed within a year. The prisoners cases will be reviewed and decisions will be made based on the circumstances of the cases, and other factors like the likelihood that the nation of origin will accept them. Those that are retained in custody will do so, most likely in a supermax prison, where they will eventually be brought to trail from crimes that we can prove they have committed .... in accordance with the principals of our constitution.

    I suppose that is not quite as simplistic as the 'off with their heads', or 'throw the lot of them into the Ocean,' but it marks a sharp break with 'secret' tribunals under which prisoners were convicted by evidence that they could not see and had no chance to refute. It also marks a sharpe break from the political pressure to 'find' the prisoners guilty under those conditions, conditions that were repeatedly struck down by our Supreme Court.

    You may not like the plan, but not liking a plan and not having a plan are two entirely different things.



    Sounds like you have the outline for a plan, Do you have a link to Obama's plan? Thanks.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Umm, it could be that how Petreaus was treated was one of the biggest scandals last year and the two are now permanently tied together...

    Or it could be because we still trust in Petreaus's opinions and so there is really nothing to discuss here except how those who don't trust in his opinions feel about it.

    Why are you so uncomfortable talking about it if they don't really speak for you?
    Or, it could be that the various political parties simply want to make Petreaus and his successes 'ours'. I have no doubt that if Afghanistan implodes, that failure will 'theirs'

    An interesting tidbit, unless GEN PEtreaus lied to me and about a thousand other officers, he doesn't vote. He views his duty as to his country and to provide the Natioanl Command Authority (read President and key staff) with non-politicized military assessment and decisions within the framework of the limitations he is given. The 'political' fights he gets into are only the ones that relate to his ability to impliment sound and effective war plans.

    Very few commander have his charisma, drive, toleration of dissent, and ability to focus a team in such an effective manner. We, as a nation, are more fortunate than you can imagine.

    Had he not stepped in when he did, the military and the civilian officials were ready to slit each others throats over the blame for the failure in Iraq. Had that fight erupted, there would almost certainly have been constitutional considerations.

    He is literally THE right man at the right time. We are truly fortunate for his leadership.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    A Plan? Are you seriously saying that you do not see evidence of a plan?

    Lets take a look at Gitmo. The order is pretty specific: it will be closed within a year. The prisoners cases will be reviewed and decisions will be made based on the circumstances of the cases, and other factors like the likelihood that the nation of origin will accept them. Those that are retained in custody will do so, most likely in a supermax prison, where they will eventually be brought to trail from crimes that we can prove they have committed .... in accordance with the principals of our constitution.

    I suppose that is not quite as simplistic as the 'off with their heads', or 'throw the lot of them into the Ocean,' but it marks a sharp break with 'secret' tribunals under which prisoners were convicted by evidence that they could not see and had no chance to refute. It also marks a sharpe break from the political pressure to 'find' the prisoners guilty under those conditions, conditions that were repeatedly struck down by our Supreme Court.

    You may not like the plan, but not liking a plan and not having a plan are two entirely different things.
    Why don't you do everyone a HUGE favor and post a link that details all this out in the executive order Obama signed that put together a TEAM to EXAMINE HOW to close Gitmo within a year.

    Then while you are at it, please tell us how this translates to a plan to actually close Gitmo and where Obama has NOT already reversed himself on several of his campaign "claims/promises."

    I look forward to seeing EVIDENCE of this "plan." But just to be sure we are all on the same page; here is what a plan means:

    Main Entry: plan !plan
    Pronunciation: \ ˈplan \
    Function: noun
    Etymology: French, plane, foundation, ground plan; partly from Latin planum level ground, from neuter of planus level; partly from French planter to plant, fix in place, from Late Latin plantare - More at - floor, plant
    Date: 1706
    Results

    1. a drawing or diagram drawn on a plane: as a. a top or horizontal view of an object b. a large-scale map of a small area

    2 a. a method for achieving an end b. an often customary method of doing something : procedure c. a detailed formulation of a program of action d. goal aim

    3. an orderly arrangement of parts of an overall design or objective

    4. a detailed program (as for payment or the provision of some service) - pension plan


    Again, a plan is not speculative rhetoric, a campaign pledge or an executive order establishing a commission to study something to formulate a plan.


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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Sounds like you have the outline for a plan, Do you have a link to Obama's plan? Thanks.
    Why not try the White House web site? barrackobama.com? You tell me.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Or, it could be that the various political parties simply want to make Petreaus and his successes 'ours'.
    It's not "ours". It's his and the Republican party's successes. The democrats spent so many years preaching messages of defeat in desperate attempts to get elected that they missed the "ours" bus a long time ago.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Why not try the White House web site? barrackobama.com? You tell me.




    Sure.


    uhm



    NO PLAN.....






    That wasn't hard. And I did all the work.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    It's your paranoia that led you to believe that this was a critique of the Bush administration. It was a critique of those on the far left that felt Obama should have released prisoners from Gitmo on January 21, and have been critical that he has not yet done so.
    Perhaps it is not my “paranoia” but rather your lack of clarity?

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Perhaps it is not my “paranoia” but rather your lack of clarity?
    I was clear, you're just dense. And farcical, don't forget farcical.

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