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Thread: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    The reality is that at least he is trying. His original projections for pulling out may have been far too aggressive for the reality of the situation, but he is working towards that goal in earnest. And that is what is important. He's trying to get us out of there as quickly and responsibly as he can.

    Nobody is making any case of importance over whether or not he actually makes his 18 month time line. No plan survives contact with the enemy.




    I don't think he is "working" any harder on it than Bush was in the end. Do you?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    What substance and facts am I confusing?
    No you have gone from lacking substance to being deliberately obtuse; did you not make the following comment?

    Originally Posted by Gibberish
    Because Bush's admin planned for the invasion to end with the troops dodging flowers and hugs from the Iraqi's in Baghdad. Not IEDs and rocket launchers.

    If Bush would have went into this expecting the unstable country to not fully embrace Democracy as the next coming of Christ the outcome may have been different.


    I think it is pretty obvious what is lacking substance in that claim.....I bolded it for you to make it easier for you.

    But of course you will now argue that you were in all the meetings and can read George Bush's mind and divine all his intents right?


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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    HAA!~!

    Sorry, but from just the brief time I've been here, the "blatant partisan" in this exchange is obvious.

    And it ain't Lerxst, my friend.
    He's just mad that I won't indulge his attempt to derail.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I don't think he is "working" any harder on it than Bush was in the end. Do you?
    I do.

    1 through 10.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I do.

    1 through 10.


    Huh?




    Bush had already started the withdrawal, no? Has obama done anything different? if so what?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Now then... tell me how it is that The Obama deserves the pass Lerxst gives Him, based on the idea that "no plan survives contact with the enemy', whereas GWB does not.
    The difference is, and I know you will never get this, is that Bush's plan was both a horrific **** up and absolutely unnecessary.

    The devil is in the details. Bush and his administration willfully rejected the advice of the generals who were charged with executing the campaign. They exacerbated the situation by continuing to implement strategies that had little chance of success. This Bush plan didn't survive contact with it's own generals let alone the enemy.

    Obama on the other hand made a campaign promise to have our troops out within 18 months. It's now become obvious that his plans were somewhat aggressive and the reality is that it will be longer than 18 months.

    If you don't see the stark contrast between the two example then you are blind. Bush doesn't get a pass because the situation doesn't warrant one. He got thousands of our men and women killed by invading and occupying a country unnecessarily. It was a war of choice, and it was horribly planned and executed.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Huh?
    Ten character limit thing.

    Bush had already started the withdrawal, no? Has obama done anything different? if so what?
    Obama is trying to accelerate the timeline and reduce our role in that nation, which would bring more of our troops home. He's realized we will be unable to completely withdrawal for many years. Given our history in Korea, Japan, Germany...probably never.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    The difference is, and I know you will never get this, is that Bush's plan was both a horrific **** up and absolutely unnecessary.

    The devil is in the details. Bush and his administration willfully rejected the advice of the generals who were charged with executing the campaign. They exacerbated the situation by continuing to implement strategies that had little chance of success. This Bush plan didn't survive contact with it's own generals let alone the enemy.

    Obama on the other hand made a campaign promise to have our troops out within 18 months. It's now become obvious that his plans were somewhat aggressive and the reality is that it will be longer than 18 months.

    If you don't see the stark contrast between the two example then you are blind. Bush doesn't get a pass because the situation doesn't warrant one. He got thousands of our men and women killed by invading and occupying a country unnecessarily. It was a war of choice, and it was horribly planned and executed.
    Two things; (1) Do you REALLY think that Bush made these plans? and (2); do you really think that Generals plans are infallible and take into account ALL possible outcomes?

    In BOTH cases you are definitely speaking from ignorance if you answer either in the affirmative.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    No you have gone from lacking substance to being deliberately obtuse; did you not make the following comment?

    Originally Posted by Gibberish
    Because Bush's admin planned for the invasion to end with the troops dodging flowers and hugs from the Iraqi's in Baghdad. Not IEDs and rocket launchers.

    If Bush would have went into this expecting the unstable country to not fully embrace Democracy as the next coming of Christ the outcome may have been different.


    I think it is pretty obvious what is lacking substance in that claim.....I bolded it for you to make it easier for you.

    But of course you will now argue that you were in all the meetings and can read George Bush's mind and divine all his intents right?

    And you obviously lack the knowledge of the subject matter to understand where he is going with his comment. Bush knew there was a very high probability of an insurgency and sectarian violence, yet he ignored it in favor of trying to recreate the 1991 Gulf War success. Which he did, but he failed on the follow through. His piss poor planning landed our military right where it wasn't prepared to be. If you know anything about George W. Bush you will know that his faith in God played a pivotal role in how made decisions.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Ten character limit thing.


    Obama is trying to accelerate the timeline and reduce our role in that nation, which would bring more of our troops home. He's realized we will be unable to completely withdrawal for many years. Given our history in Korea, Japan, Germany...probably never.
    I am curious; why is it that Liberals never railed about bringing our troops home from Germany, or Japan, or any of the other hundreds of places you will find our troops?

    Why does it have to be Iraq? Does this same "bring them home now" rule apply to Afghanistan, and if not, why not?

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