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Thread: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

  1. #131
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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    I doesn't matter who supported who for what ever reasons in the past. The fact is that Petreaus made a statement in support of Obama as Colin Powell did and in my view it is most interesting to see how people on the Right are reacting to it. The people on the left are in control and deserve support and deserve to acknowledge the support they are getting.

    The Right has the tendency to throw people under the bus that do not agree with them.

    Should I list the long list of Generals and commanders on the ground who were fired because they spoke up against Bush and Cheney?

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    As a request, is there any way we could cut out the 5 year old, school yard idiocies of "Shrub" and "Maobama" by any chance and have...I don't know...a grown up conversation? If not, cool, no need to respond. But I figure its worth putting in the request.




    Absolutley. The easiest way for Chairman maobama not to make an appearance is if my opponets refrain from instigating with "Shrub" comments and the like. It is sorta the same goal as what you requested. though I did take the low road.



    But I will do one better and refrain for the duration of this thread.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Obama's PLAN is to close GITMO. Petraeus supports the close of GITMO. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

    I have a plan to get lunch. Does the fact that I don't know if I am going to get a sandwich or salad mean I am not getting lunch?
    Well if merely saying you want to close Gitmo is a plan, then Obama and Petreaus must then be endorsing George Bush, not the other way around right?

    Guantanamo Bay Prison may close: Bush

    June 09, 2005 19:33 IST

    President Geoge W Bush has hinted for the first time that US may close Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba, amid widespread outrage over reported desecration of Islamic holy text Koran and criticism from rights groups about ill-treatment of detainees there.

    "We are exploring all alternatives as to how best to do the main objective, which is to protect America. What we don't want to do is to let out somebody that comes back and harms us," Bush told Fox News Channel on Wednesday night when asked about the prospect of closing the facility, which holds some 540 terrorists and terror suspects.



    Bush says he would like to close Guantanamo
    Posted on: Sunday, 7 May 2006, 12:58 CDT
    By Noah Barkin

    BERLIN (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said he would like to close the U.S.-run prison at Guantanamo Bay -- a step urged by several U.S. allies -- but was awaiting a Supreme Court ruling on how suspects held there might be tried.

    "Of course Guantanamo is a delicate issue for people. I would like to close the camp and put the prisoners on trial," Bush said in comments to German television to be broadcast on Sunday night. The interview was recorded last week.

  4. #134
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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    I doesn't matter who supported who for what ever reasons in the past. The fact is that Petreaus made a statement in support of Obama as Colin Powell did and in my view it is most interesting to see how people on the Right are reacting to it. The people on the left are in control and deserve support and deserve to acknowledge the support they are getting.
    Woah woah woah woah woah....WOAH.

    Hold on a moment, you've entered into contradiction land.

    It doesn't matter who supported who for what reasons in the past....yet the ENTIRE basis for your thread is asking if Republicans STILL support him. How can you even ask that if your not referencing the fact that, in the past, the republicans DID support him? Yet you're NOW trying to say that it doesn't matter who supported who in the past? I'm sorry, but that in no way, shape, or form makes any amount of logical sense in the least. Its back peddling, plane and in full view.

    Not to mention, where is this notion coming from that somehow because one side in power we must fully support them. I take it you were on message boards loudly proclaiming the wrongness of Hillary Clinton stating that dissention is the highest form of patriotism? Or deriding liberals who were complaining about a fully republican controlled government? Are the notions of minority rights in our legislative branch and built in protections so that even those not in power can potentially stop things if they feel it is not in the countries best interest just not really there?

    Not to mention, is there not a difference between questioning, disagreeing, and not supporting? Could I not question a companies approach to doing things, disagree with said companies approach in the end, but still donate to said company to support their business? And would it not be entirely different if instead of just disagreeing with said company I came out and decided to claim that company is criminal?

    The Right has the tendency to throw people under the bus that do not agree with them.
    As does the left. Politicians in general do. For the right you can look at Jeffords and Specter, on the left you can look at their treatment of Lieberman and Miller. Its a politician thing, not a "right or left" thing.

    Should I list the long list of Generals and commanders on the ground who were fired because they spoke up against Bush and Cheney?
    No, because while discussing the lefts reaction to this information equally with the rights is actually on topic as theres absolutely ZERO reason for two breaking news threads about the exact same topic simply to discuss "the left" and "the right", there is nothing on topic about Generals and commanders speaking up against Bush and Cheney and getting fired as that's an entirely different conversation.

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Woah woah woah woah woah....WOAH.

    Hold on a moment, you've entered into contradiction land.

    It doesn't matter who supported who for what reasons in the past....yet the ENTIRE basis for your thread is asking if Republicans STILL support him. How can you even ask that if your not referencing the fact that, in the past, the republicans DID support him? Yet you're NOW trying to say that it doesn't matter who supported who in the past? I'm sorry, but that in no way, shape, or form makes any amount of logical sense in the least. Its back peddling, plane and in full view.

    Not to mention, where is this notion coming from that somehow because one side in power we must fully support them. I take it you were on message boards loudly proclaiming the wrongness of Hillary Clinton stating that dissention is the highest form of patriotism? Or deriding liberals who were complaining about a fully republican controlled government? Are the notions of minority rights in our legislative branch and built in protections so that even those not in power can potentially stop things if they feel it is not in the countries best interest just not really there?

    Not to mention, is there not a difference between questioning, disagreeing, and not supporting? Could I not question a companies approach to doing things, disagree with said companies approach in the end, but still donate to said company to support their business? And would it not be entirely different if instead of just disagreeing with said company I came out and decided to claim that company is criminal?



    As does the left. Politicians in general do. For the right you can look at Jeffords and Specter, on the left you can look at their treatment of Lieberman and Miller. Its a politician thing, not a "right or left" thing.



    No, because while discussing the lefts reaction to this information equally with the rights is actually on topic as theres absolutely ZERO reason for two breaking news threads about the exact same topic simply to discuss "the left" and "the right", there is nothing on topic about Generals and commanders speaking up against Bush and Cheney and getting fired as that's an entirely different conversation.
    That would be all well and fine if and only if the those on the Right choose to discuss their past relationship and beliefs reguarding Petreaus and his current comments reguarding his support for Obama. But for the most part they want to discuss the lefts past relationship reguarding Petreaus..period.

    They want to ignore the OP...isn't that clear?

  6. #136
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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Well if merely saying you want to close Gitmo is a plan, then Obama and Petreaus must then be endorsing George Bush, not the other way around right?
    And that's exactly why I stated previously actions speak louder then words. Bush's actions dictate that he never meant for GITMO to close under his watch and his administration backs that by eluding that the closing of GITMO would be a national security vulnerability to the US, overturning legislation giving detainee's rights to a trial,


    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Guantanamo Bay Prison may close: Bush

    June 09, 2005 19:33 IST

    President Geoge W Bush has hinted for the first time that US may close Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba, amid widespread outrage over reported desecration of Islamic holy text Koran and criticism from rights groups about ill-treatment of detainees there.

    "We are exploring all alternatives as to how best to do the main objective, which is to protect America. What we don't want to do is to let out somebody that comes back and harms us," Bush told Fox News Channel on Wednesday night when asked about the prospect of closing the facility, which holds some 540 terrorists and terror suspects.
    Exploring options after a scandal does not equate to looking to close gitmo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Bush says he would like to close Guantanamo
    Posted on: Sunday, 7 May 2006, 12:58 CDT
    By Noah Barkin

    BERLIN (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said he would like to close the U.S.-run prison at Guantanamo Bay -- a step urged by several U.S. allies -- but was awaiting a Supreme Court ruling on how suspects held there might be tried.

    "Of course Guantanamo is a delicate issue for people. I would like to close the camp and put the prisoners on trial," Bush said in comments to German television to be broadcast on Sunday night. The interview was recorded last week.
    What did Bush do after the Supreme Court came back and ruled that the trials held there violate both US law and the Geneva convention?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    General Petraeus is just the latest military leader to back yet another of Obama's decisions.
    What else would you expect a good officer to do? If he had a difference of opinion with the civilian leadership, he would handle it in private, but publicly he's going to support those leaders whose orders he has sworn an oath to follow.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    What else would you expect a good officer to do? If he had a difference of opinion with the civilian leadership, he would handle it in private, but publicly he's going to support those leaders whose orders he has sworn an oath to follow.
    Wouldn't that mean that his credibility when he spoke in favor of Bush administration decisions somewhat suspect too? I am not saying you are not right, I dunno for sure. He is either some one who stands up for what he believes in vocally, or he is doing his soldierly duty and agreeing with his boss. Either way I like the guy, and will give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. I did not last time, and might have been wrong.

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    Why so serious?

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Wouldn't that mean that his credibility when he spoke in favor of Bush administration decisions somewhat suspect too? I am not saying you are not right, I dunno for sure. He is either some one who stands up for what he believes in vocally, or he is doing his soldierly duty and agreeing with his boss. Either way I like the guy, and will give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. I did not last time, and might have been wrong.
    No, because at the time, President Bush was his boss. Now he has a new boss. He basically has 3 choices here...rebel against the new boss quietly and retire, rebel openly and be retired, or do his job and publicly support his boss. He's doing exactly what's expected of any good officer.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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    Re: Petraeus Endorses Obama's Plans To Close GITMO, End Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    That would be all well and fine if and only if the those on the Right choose to discuss their past relationship and beliefs reguarding Petreaus and his current comments reguarding his support for Obama. But for the most part they want to discuss the lefts past relationship reguarding Petreaus..period.

    They want to ignore the OP...isn't that clear?
    We know what our past relationship regarding Petreaus has been. It appears that you guys on the left still have some confusion about it. You supported moveon, you didn't support moveon. Moveon thinks he's a betrayer, moveon doesn't think he's a betrayer...Seems like the more interesting conversation is with that.

    You didn't honestly think the right would sit here and let you devote an entire thread to beating them over the head with the fact that (oh the horror!!!) Petreaus is supporting the commander in chief's orders, did you?

    It just doesn't seem odd to anyone with half a brain that a general would support the decisions of the Commander in Chief. I mean, I guess I can see how that might appear odd to the classless left, but it doesn't seem odd to anyone with any integrity and respect for the office of president.

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