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Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

So are these photos showing people who have not been convicted for what happened at Abu Ghraib? Or are these photos of activities already punished?

Either way, the release of these photos would accomplish what exactly? If its people involved that have gone unpunished, then its evidence for the courtroom where they should be tried. If its for crimes already punished, then why release grotesque photos of this nature? Someone mentioned it would mean Obama wasn't looking the other way, if he released the photos. No, Obama would be looking the other way, if he didn't seek to prosecute all those responsible for what happened Abu Ghraib(if there is anybody left to prosecute at this point). Not releasing the photos, saves us from having it used as even more propoganda for recruitment against US forces in the region. Some of the good work and goodwill that US forces are trying to buildup in these areas, could be negatively impacted by the visual images of the criminal few that were involved.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
No. and I don't want to hear speculation of what they are "said to show" either.
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So you neither want to see nor hear about the photos? See no evil eh?

Don't you trust Obama to do the right thing without you knowing or are you hoping for his "transparency"....
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Transparencyis the right thing. The right thing would be to admit what we have done . If you think we've done nothing wrong what is the problem? If you don't I fail to see how a cover up is the right thing to do.
 
Laila said:
The worst of the article comes later on:

An underage kid being raped, this is disgusting.
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I can't wait for Hannity to :spin: this.

One thing I will say is that if this occurred, and it appears clear that it did, it endangers our service personnel in far more dangerous ways than the information that supposedly protected Los Angeles.

We NEED to be perceived as the guys in the white hats, the good guys, the shining city on the hill, to accomplish our longterm goals in the middle east. This endangers our longterm goals far more than isolated acts of terror ever will.

This has the same impact as one dirty cop has on public confidence in law enforcement and the safety of every other guy on the street.
 
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Laila said:
Outside of the photos proving rape is released and us seeing them to confirm it, you will have to trust others account ....
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The problem here is that there are no longer standards that have to be met to get into the military. People now get in with felony records, drug use, and mental problems. This should not be. We need to go back to setting entrance standards for the military that are stricter. Meanwhile, the soldier who raped that kid should be court marshaled and sent before a firing squad.
 
WI Crippler said:
Not releasing the photos, saves us from having it used as even more propoganda for recruitment against US forces in the region. Some of the good work and goodwill that US forces are trying to buildup in these areas, could be negatively impacted by the visual images of the criminal few that were involved.
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There are already Abu Gharib photos which are just as disgusting which is in the public domain, i doubt it would make a difference if some more was just added on it.

I can see why US should not release the rape photos [privacy of the individual] but then again in the other batch, weren't the faces blocked out? Not to mention our soldiers being put in danger [but then again, they already are a target]
 
Kernel Sanders said:
So you neither want to see nor hear about the photos? See no evil eh?
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Incorrect.


I have empathy for the suspected rape victim.


I see you would rather drag thier images and names through the dirt, for what ends?


Transparencyis the right thing. The right thing would be to admit what we have done . If you think we've done nothing wrong what is the problem? If you don't I fail to see how a cover up is the right thing to do.
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Who said coverup? Lets see what happened, but releasing images of victims is not the right move.
 
danarhea said:
The problem here is that there are no longer standards that have to be met to get into the military. People now get in with felony records, drug use, and mental problems. This should not be. We need to go back to setting entrance standards for the military that are stricter. Meanwhile, the soldier who raped that kid should be court marshaled and sent before a firing squad.
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But wait...we don't want women in combat, and so we are forced to resort to lowering entrance requirements and sending our male enlistees on longer and longer deployments on a variety of different fronts. It's a non-sustainable scenario.

*yes, I realize this is an advertisement for one of my pet issues. Sue me. :wink:
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Who said coverup? Lets see what happened, but releasing images of victims is not the right move.
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Basically, Hellhound is advocating that we treat victims of these rapes with the same decency we do victims of rapes in the U.S.

Morally and ethically consistent.
 
danarhea said:
The problem here is that there are no longer standards that have to be met to get into the military. People now get in with felony records, drug use, and mental problems. This should not be. We need to go back to setting entrance standards for the military that are stricter. Meanwhile, the soldier who raped that kid should be court marshaled and sent before a firing squad.
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Seriously? Why hire such people to begin with? Does US have a shortage of volunteers or something?

Nah, too nice.
I say we drop the rapists in Iraq and allow the kid to hunt him. If he reaches the border, he is safe. If he's caught ... well, he won't be sleeping easy

I watch way too many movies lmao
 
Laila said:
There are already Abu Gharib photos which are just as disgusting which is in the public domain, i doubt it would make a difference if some more was just added on it.

I can see why US should not release the rape photos [privacy of the individual] but then again in the other batch, weren't the faces blocked out? Not to mention our soldiers being put in danger [but then again, they already are a target]
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And I disagree we needed to release those photos as well. We sure as hell needed to prosecute the people responsible, and the photos are certainley to be used as damning evidence against them in the courtroom. But to make these photos public domain, accomplished what exactly? All it accomplished, was to paint a negative picture of all US troops, because of the criminal and irresponsible actions of the few. The impact of releasing photos of this nature are more negative than they are positive, IMO.
 
Middleground said:
Thing is, it's a difficult thing to prove.
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True dat, but if the trial is public enough, those who fostered this situation will at least have to face some sort of consequence, even if nothing more than public shame.
 
WI Crippler said:
And I disagree we needed to release those photos as well. We sure as hell needed to prosecute the people responsible, and the photos are certainley to be used as damning evidence against them in the courtroom. But to make these photos public domain, accomplished what exactly? All it accomplished, was to paint a negative picture of all US troops, because of the criminal and irresponsible actions of the few. The impact of releasing photos of this nature are more negative than they are positive, IMO.
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The media clamors for pics because they can sell more ads by increasing their circulation/ratings if they paste them everywhere.

And the average consumer is oblivious to the harm that the images can cause. They just want to "see" it for themselves.

Releasing these types of pictures only aids the morbid curiosity of people and builds the coffers of the media conglomerates. Overall, releasing them is a detriment to society because these "positives" are actually negatives in the long-term.

These photos should never be released. They offer no benefits, and have many detriments.
 
WI Crippler said:
And I disagree we needed to release those photos as well. We sure as hell needed to prosecute the people responsible, and the photos are certainley to be used as damning evidence against them in the courtroom. But to make these photos public domain, accomplished what exactly? All it accomplished, was to paint a negative picture of all US troops, because of the criminal and irresponsible actions of the few. The impact of releasing photos of this nature are more negative than they are positive, IMO.
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Perhaps but the first release of those photos had started the ball rolling, i supported the release of the first photos. Do you think prosecutions would have happened if the photos weren't leaked? Perhaps in US case it may have, but in UKs case it wouldn't have. Sometimes, public anger gets things done faster.

Now we know what the new photos may have, it won't just stop. Just release it and get it all over with instead of dragging it out because it won't go away.
Besides, now that we know what is in the photos, aren't our soldiers still in danger? Its almost as bad as seeing the photos
 
Mira said:
I think releasing them would have had a positive effect if it would have been done as a gesture of denouncing these crimes. What could have been a more powerful message than hearing the American President say "I'm not closing my eyes, not looking the other way, I know what happened and will make sure that it will not happen again".

They already know what has happened and what is happening daily inside and outside of the prisons. They have the live graphics right in front of their eyes, pictures won't add anything.
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While I agree with you in theory, the truth of the matter is it's just not a practical thing to do. Too many American and coalition lives are at stake to take the risk of the enemy using such photos as propaganda to rally their forces against American and coalition forces.

No, you don't release these photos, but you do condemn them at every turn and denounce using torture. Condemnation and denouncement should be more than enough to convince the Muslim/Arab world of the current U.S. government's sincerity on the matter. Besides, by Conservative standards, hasn't America apologised enough? :roll:
 
Tucker Case said:
The media clamors for pics because they can sell more ads by increasing their circulation/ratings if they paste them everywhere.

And the average consumer is oblivious to the harm that the images can cause. They just want to "see" it for themselves.

Releasing these types of pictures only aids the morbid curiosity of people and the media conglomerates. Overall, releasing them is a detriment to society because these "positives" are actually negatives in the long-term.

These photos should never be released. They offer no benefits, and have many detriments.
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Good post. It is almost always a mistake to rely on the ethics of journalists to do the right thing.

"If it bleeds, it leads."

I support releasing these photos where they belong:

In a farking GRAND JURY.
 
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EdwardRN said:
As a nation, we are disintegrating....

...The band is playing and the Titanic is sinking.
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My grandmother used to say the exact same thing back in the 60's.

Funny.

:2wave:
 
Grateful Heart said:
My grandmother used to say the exact same thing back in the 60's.

Funny.

:2wave:
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Hell in a handbasket. It's a peculiar inclination of those over 50 to long for better days in their past and view the past through rose-colored glasses.

In no way do I long for the days of firehosing black people, forced segregation, lack of rights for women, and the like. It's a myth that the olden days were better days.

TODAY is the best day, because there is still an opportunity for change.
 
Middleground said:
Or the current government can go by way of convincing it's public to believe that the rapes were essential in order to get pertinent information that saved American lives. :roll:
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Call it, "enhanced physical informatics"

I don't care if the photos get released. It's already known and reported by a credible source. I just wish someone could tell us what to expect in the next few years, and how to prepare. Are we going to have a nuclear war? Will we call it "isotopically enhanced negotiations"? Will there be a great depression? Will we call it a "Prosperity Stimulus?" Will we have a civil war? Will we call it a "Factionally sensitive dispute"? Will Obama smile at us the whole time? Have we always been at war with Eastasia, or was it Eurasia? Will there, in fact, be a boot stamping on a human face forever?

The newspaper says you're free to choose; there's egg on your face and mud on your shoes; one of these days you're going to call it the blues.
--Sowing the Seeds of Love, Tears for Fears
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
I can't wait for Hannity to :spin: this.

One thing I will say is that if this occurred, and it appears clear that it did, it endangers our service personnel in far more dangerous ways than the information that supposedly protected Los Angeles.

We NEED to be perceived as the guys in the white hats, the good guys, the shining city on the hill, to accomplish our longterm goals in the middle east. This endangers our longterm goals far more than isolated acts of terror ever will.

This has the same impact as one dirty cop has on public confidence in law enforcement and the safety of every other guy on the street.
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How can you spin something like this but i'd love to see someone to try.

We are hated, percieved to be the occupiers. US and UK troops are not wanted. We should cut our losses, pay compensation on those we have abused, say sorry, leave and keep our military on our soil
 
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Laila said:
Perhaps but the first release of those photos had started the ball rolling, i supported the release of the first photos. Do you think prosecutions would have happened if the photos weren't leaked? Perhaps in US case it may have, but in UKs case it wouldn't have. Sometimes, public anger gets things done faster.

Now we know what the new photos may have, it won't just stop. Just release it and get it all over with instead of dragging it out because it won't go away.
Besides, now that we know what is in the photos, aren't our soldiers still in danger? Its almost as bad as seeing the photos
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I can read about somebody getting beheaded, and I can watch someone get beheaded. One of them disgusts me, but I can put it out of my mind after a time, to where I might not even remember who wrote it. I can never forget such a stunning visual however. There is a power to images, that words cannot convey. Would it not disgust you more, and garner more negative feelings, watching someone rape somebody, or reading about it in the paper?
 
WI Crippler said:
I can read about somebody getting beheaded, and I can watch someone get beheaded. One of them disgusts me, but I can put it out of my mind after a time, to where I might not even remember who wrote it. I can never forget such a stunning visual however. There is a power to images, that words cannot convey. Would it not disgust you more, and garner more negative feelings, watching someone rape somebody, or reading about it in the paper?
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Very true
But if we just read it, such a thing would be 'put out of our head' as you put it and not adressed, we have the ability to ignore things we do not wish to address. If we see photos or images, the likelihood of us forgetting it would be small.
 
Laila said:
Very true
But if we just read it, such a thing would be 'put out of our head' as you put it and not adressed, we have the ability to ignore things we do not wish to address. If we see photos or images, the likelihood of us forgetting it would be small.
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Its not up to "us" to address it. Its up to the military courts to address it, and they would rightfully have full access to these photos.
 
Laila said:
How can you spin something like this but i'd love to see someone to try.
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That's one of my primary entertainments these days, as someone who has an admittedly dark sense of humor...watching the shills for the far right put massive :spin: on the horrific and unthinkable.

They clearly have no shame.
 
Objective Voice said:
Condemnation and denouncement should be more than enough to convince the Muslim/Arab world of the current U.S. government's sincerity on the matter.
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Bush did the same thing when he was President.
He condemned and denounced such acts, didn't make a difference did it? What makes you think this time will be any different?
 
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Laila said:
Very true
But if we just read it, such a thing would be 'put out of our head' as you put it and not adressed, we have the ability to ignore things we do not wish to address. If we see photos or images, the likelihood of us forgetting it would be small.
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I understand your point, but I think that it's too late for most of us to forget, and I doubt that this is something that can be swept under a rug, despite the pretzel logic maneuvers of the far right commentators.

Too many Americans simply have too much personal decency to forget. I think you are underestimating the swell of opinion in this country in regards to this issue.

Enough pictures have already been aired to make the point.

To be honest, I find the best commentators on this subject to be our military personnel, who fully understand the longterm ramifications of this issue. I trust them to handle it.
 
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