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North Korea Threatens South, Armistice Off

China has, very quietly, made it clear they won't militarily support NK because they know it's not worth spending the political currency over. U.S. forces along with SK forces would literally obliterate the Northern ones. Kim Jong-il and the KPA have a large military, but it's equipped with 50's and 60's era Soviet crap that barely worked then, and some more 'modern' equipment that was homegrown in the 70's and early 80's.

There is nothing in NK that China wants or needs, and we're dealing with a different China now than in the days of the Korean War. China wants investment capital and economic expansion. If Kim Jong-il threatens that status quo for no good reason, which is exactly what he is doing, then China will back off completely.

China doesn't care anymore about spreading Communism, Cold War style. It only cares about its internal operations. The Koreans could be reunified as a democracy for all it cares. As long as it's a prosperous trading partner then great. Kim Jong-il is making the serious assumption that his China connections are strong. They are not. We live in a much more globalized world now, and China is one of the nations at the centre of it.
 
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Orius said:
China has, very quietly, made it clear they won't militarily support NK because they know it's not worth spending the political currency over. U.S. forces along with SK forces would literally obliterate the Northern ones. Kim Jong-il and the KPA have a large military, but it's equipped with 50's and 60's era Soviet crap that barely worked then, and some more 'modern' equipment that was homegrown in the 70's and early 80's.

There is nothing in NK that China wants or needs, and we're dealing with a different China now than in the days of the Korean War. China wants investment capital and economic expansion. If Kim Jong-il threatens that status quo for no good reason, which is exactly what he is doing, then China will back off completely.

China doesn't care anymore about spreading Communism, Cold War style. It only cares about its internal operations. The Koreans could be reunified as a democracy for all it cares. As long as it's a prosperous trading partner then great. Kim Jong-il is making the serious assumption that his China connections are strong. They are not. We live in a much more globalized world now, and China is one of the nations at the centre of it.
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If I were SK, I would not count on the US coming to my aid. It will be a long time, if ever, before the US commits more that a few air sorties and missle or two to any new conflict in a foreign land.


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TOJ said:
If I were SK, I would not count on the US coming to my aid. It will be a long time, if ever, before the US commits more that a few air sorties and missle or two to any new conflict in a foreign land.
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Someone will step in eventually, and I don't think a U.S. campaign is out of the question. The issue is not just security of SK, but also the security of nuclear weapons in general. NK has sold weapons to a variety of different nations in the past, and I'm sure they would jump at the chance to market their nuclear weapons. Gotta fund the regime, after all.

This is not a country that should be having nukes. IMO it's an even more dangerous adversary than Iran.
 
Orius said:
China has, very quietly, made it clear they won't militarily support NK because they know it's not worth spending the political currency over.
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Have they? Do you have a link?
 
Kernel Sanders said:
Have they? Do you have a link?
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China has already openly stated on more than one occasion that it is firmly opposed to the nuclear weaponization of NK, and has urged it to stand down. Where China remains ambiguous is in its support for disabling NK if the time comes for such measures to be taken... and IMO that would simply require joint talks of mutual accommodation.

It's in China's own interest to monitor the nuclear situation. There is home grown terrorism in Western China that would have a vested interest in acquiring those weapons, and China is against nuclear proliferation in the region.

VOA News - US Lawmaker Confident China Will Help with North Korea

VOA News - China Urges 'Coolheaded' Response to North Korea

China will not risk harming its own development over NK, I can almost guarantee it. This is especially true if the U.S. plans to get involved. China's main interest right now is making sure its U.S. investment is proceeding smoothly.
 
ARealConservative said:
I agree with this. China could easily rein in NK right now if they wanted to. I'm not really sure why China isn't doing more to keep them in check though.
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North Korea is yanking The Messiah's chain. Why would China interfere with good theater? Chances are good, also, that China put the North Koreans up to this.

Also, the very last thing China wants is a free and prosperous democracy on it's border, so any attempt to overthrow the PingPong regime will be met with armed resistance from China, if necessary.
 
creativedreams said:
You don't think that China see's it as an expansion on Democracy and if we had the balls we would do it to China too?
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I really don't think China cares if it is an expansion of democracy. This is to view Chinese foreign policy from an ethnocentric standpoint. China, unlike the United States, is not an ideological power that prefers other countries to have a certain political ideology instead of another. China prefers other countries to have China-friendly policies...and doesn't really care if they're democracies, Islamic states, or totalitarian communist states.

China might be uncomfortable with having the United States on its border...but I doubt it would have anything to do with democracy.
 
China is not going to do anything.
China is an ally of North Korea.
China is not going to defend any of you.
China is not the solution.
The whole China routine is a cop out mostly from the left so that they can excuse themselves form doing NOTHING,.


Whatever..until Obama is gone..lmao at the "west" is the "worlds" reaction. Nobody has anything to fear form a lying coward who betrays his own nations troops and his nations allies to placate a crowd whose foreign policy is appeasement and blame the USA.
Our allies must re-arm to defend themselves now because they cannot be assured the USA will stand with them..and even if it does how long it will last.



China is not going to do a damn thing for you people..wake up to the real world..
....oh and ffs pick up a book about the History of the Korean War. :roll:
 
Redress said:
I saw some of those. I seriously hope it's just posturing, but it is worrying.
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I doubt anything will come of it. At Least not this year.

North Korea would not want all this warning time and probably doesn't have enough nukes ..yet..to blow big holes in the DMZ as well as hit strategic ports in Japan, etc...when they do and there's not alot of noise during May-September..then.

Their goal in any war is to overrun the South asap..and thus be able to call in the UN and hand them a faite accompli.

With nuclear weapons they will not only have the means to pull that off but
also the means to seriously hamper any reinforcments/re-supply efforts.

also-
North Korea doesn't view "WMD" as "special arms"...iow their Chemical Weapons are part of their militarily plans. They have always been expected to use them form the start of any renewal of the conflict and nuclear weapons are just bigger and better.

.........

All that said officially and for all intents and legal purposes the United States and much of the United Nations is now at War with North Korea.
The armistice is void.


The timid reaction again by the west assures the Iranian situation will go to hell. Least in that case we have one nation that will not sit around and whine forever... but act.
 
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Triad said:
China is not going to do anything.
China is an ally of North Korea.
China is not going to defend any of you.
China is not the solution.
The whole China routine is a cop out mostly from the left so that they can excuse themselves form doing NOTHING,.


Whatever..until Obama is gone..lmao at the "west" is the "worlds" reaction. Nobody has anything to fear form a lying coward who betrays his own nations troops and his nations allies to placate a crowd whose foreign policy is appeasement and blame the USA.
Our allies must re-arm to defend themselves now because they cannot be assured the USA will stand with them..and even if it does how long it will last.



China is not going to do a damn thing for you people..wake up to the real world..
....oh and ffs pick up a book about the History of the Korean War. :roll:
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coward is a funny angle to this.

NK can barely feed its people. It has virtually no Navy or Air Force.

To me, the cowards are all the people saying OMG, we must do something now. You strike me as that type of individual Triad.
 
Triad said:
I doubt anything will come of it. At Least not this year.

North Korea would not want all this warning time and probably doesn't have enough nukes ..yet..to blow big holes in the DMZ as well as hit strategic ports in Japan, etc...when they do and there's not alot of noise during May-September..then.

Their goal in any war is to overrun the South asap..and thus be able to call in the UN and hand them a faite accompli.

With nuclear weapons they will not only have the means to pull that off but
also the means to seriously hamper any reinforcments/re-supply efforts.

also-
North Korea doesn't view "WMD" as "special arms"...iow their Chemical Weapons are part of their militarily plans. They have always been expected to use them form the start of any renewal of the conflict and nuclear weapons are just bigger and better.


Al that said officially and for all intents and legal purposes the United States and much of the United Nations is now at War with North Korea.
The armistice is void.
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I don't think NK is going to even seriously consider using nukes unless their position is totally unwinnable. It would be suicide, the rest of the world would not stop till NK no longer existed as a country.
 
The danger with NK is they will sell nuclear weapons to get cash. Their ships must be inspected, and this plutonium reactor must be eliminated.
 
Something really needs to be done about North Korea. Perhaps now is the time to do it...as North Korea seems to be wanting a fight. By declaring that the Armistice is no longer valid, this could open a Pandora's Box of military actions which could plunge the peninsula into war once again. :shock:

This time, however, the war will continue with modern weapons...and not the antiquated weapons of the '50s. The battlefields should look a bit different this time around.

I, for one, have had it with North Korea's posturing. First they threaten the West. Then, the UN threatens yet another Resolution to warn the North Koreans. North Korea backs down, only to begin their sabre-rattling once again after a few weeks or so. And the UN once again talks of UN Resolutions. Round and round this goes on, and has been going on...for years now. Nothing has been done. Sanctions obviously are not working as they should. And each time that North Korea bangs it's gong, and the West runs to the UN for a Resolution, the North Koreans increase their military nuclear capabilities.

One day soon, North Korea will rattle their sabres -- and this time they will have and possibly use, a nuclear weapon against someone. The world will then gripe and moan about why they didn't do something sooner about North Korea.

I'll just be sitting at home, with a bowl of popcorn and a beer...watching it all unfold on CNN. Geez.....:roll:
 
Nation this state is technically at war with has violated the truce declared it worthless and developed the most powerful weapon on earth.


NK can barely feed its people. It has virtually no Navy or Air Force
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..and makes a superpowers bend to its will.

..and its not nearly as weak as you wish.
 
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Redress said:
I don't think NK is going to even seriously consider using nukes unless their position is totally unwinnable. It would be suicide, the rest of the world would not stop till NK no longer existed as a country.
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SO the "world" will slaughter millions instead of stop a war do to the deaths of 100's of thousands.

What world is this?..
USA won't even stick it out when terrorist kill civilians.
Hell even one of the main excuses for doing nothing is North Korea will level Seoul.
So ermm maybe but I wouldn't bet on the 'world"


That could* occur if it was a situation like WWII where the mortal survival of virtually every nation was at stake. But when its just South Korea..you can bet many nations will dump them first and fight until its over only if they can find no way to run out.
 
Triad said:
SO the "world" will slaughter millions instead of stop a war do to the deaths of 100's of thousands.

What world is this?..
USA won't even stick it out when terrorist kill civilians.
Hell even one of the main excuses for doing nothing is North Korea will level Seoul.
So ermm maybe but I wouldn't bet on the 'world"


That could* occur if it was a situation like WWII where the mortal survival of virtually every nation was at stake. But when its just South Korea..you can bet many nations will dump them first and fight until its over only if they can find no way to run out.
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You misunderstand. It would not result in a million, or even close to that deaths to totally overrun NK.
 
Korean War went well over a million. Different times..much much tougher generation.



Doesn't matter anyway.....the "west" doesn't have the willpower to stick out a conflict with al Qaeda in the most strategically vital plot of dirt on earth.
Give the west (escpecially Obama USA) an out and they will grab it well before they would ever stick it out.

Killing people works.
More they kill fast the louder the quitters in the west will get. All they have to do is look at Iraq for proof of that.
 
ARealConservative said:
coward is a funny angle to this.

NK can barely feed its people. It has virtually no Navy or Air Force.

To me, the cowards are all the people saying OMG, we must do something now. You strike me as that type of individual Triad.
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Psst... don't feed the troll.
 
ARealConservative said:
I'm not really sure why China isn't doing more to keep them in check though.
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Because North Korea provides political cover for China. China lets North Korea exist because North Korea's antics are giant distractions for the world that is scrutinizing China's various political and human rights problems. What are you going to pay attention to, China's long simmering religious oppression that ain't going anywhere fast or North Korean real and viable nuclear weapons?

China is going to milk North Korea for all that it can. Once it has gotten all that it can in political coverage, they will drop them.

And Triad is wrong. China is the answer.
 
Triad said:
Killing people works.
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So why did Vietnam fail? Why did the British Occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq fail? Why did the Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan fail? Why did we change out tactics in Iraq from seek and destroy to British Malaya type tactics which don't favor combat over economic development and domestic safety? If killing people works, why didn't occupations and conflicts were lots of people got killed failed?

Killing people only works if you make it clear that genocide is not a problem for you. That's how the Romans did it. Kill every last man, woman and child. But last I checked, we weren't immoral scum. Well, I'm not. Don't know about you.

I got a book from you, and it's written by one of the handpicked strategists of General Petraeus.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Eat-Soup-Knife-Counterinsurgency/dp/0226567702]Amazon.com: Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam: John A. Nagl, Peter J. Schoomaker: Books[/ame]
 
creativedreams said:
Democracy has EVERYTHING to do with China's perception as to our motives.

We brag about every country we turn into a democracy after we invade it and overthrow their government.

China may perceive our attacks on EVERY communist dictator as a direct relation to a threat to their communist dictators.
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China has made some serious bank off of democracy. Besides, if there was another war on the Korean peninsula, the whole thing would end up as Korea and controlled by whichever side (North or South) that won. If we send more troops there it will be to help the South win and take control of the peninsula. We wouldn't be in control of it when it's over.
 
Moon said:
China has made some serious bank off of democracy. Besides, if there was another war on the Korean peninsula, the whole thing would end up as Korea and controlled by whichever side (North or South) that won. If we send more troops there it will be to help the South win and take control of the peninsula. We wouldn't be in control of it when it's over.
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Last time China overwhelmed Korea with Chinese troops. Why do you think they take different position now?

They didn't show signs that they would get involved last time either.
 
ARealConservative said:
coward is a funny angle to this.

NK can barely feed its people. It has virtually no Navy or Air Force.
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Oh wait we have an expert alright you really want to go here please let me know. But before you start something you don't have a clue I suggest you ask Goldendog,Inferno or any of the former PF folks what I do for a living.
 
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