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Thread: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So was Alito.
    When did Alito ever say he would allow heritage, skin color, etc to have an effect on his rulings?? When did he ever say it was important to elevate more men or more white men or more Italian men to the courts in order to exact measurable change? When did he ever insinuate he even could exact change or make policy?

    Alito was asked about his personal experiences. Told explicitly that they wanted to know what was in his heart. Much like Sotomayor was asked to speak about diversity.

    The difference is he never alluded to any notions that his job was anything other than what it actually is, applying the law. He made a point of going out of his way to say that even though a case about a child might make him think about his child he can not bend the law, favor an outcome, change the law, etc. As a judge he will apply the law.

    He also never said having a penis or being Italian was gonna make him a better judge than some colored chick with a vag. Had he said that he wouldn't have gotten confirmed. All hell would've broke loose.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Surely all the experience she needs is of the fixed and original meanings of laws and the constitution and the ability to apply these in the correct, time-honoured contexts and those very, very close? She is not a legislator, exactly how useful to her job is being a hispanic, female? It is not as if she should be deciding much that is new herself.
    Then why do we need a multi-teired court system if every one seeing the law will rule the same way? Why is it that over half the cases ruled on by the supreme court are overturned by that court? Why are most supreme court cases not unanimous?
    Last edited by Redress; 05-29-09 at 11:34 PM. Reason: clarity

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    When did Alito ever say he would allow heritage, skin color, etc to have an effect on his rulings?? When did he ever say it was important to elevate more men or more white men or more Italian men to the courts in order to exact measurable change? When did he ever insinuate he even could exact change or make policy?

    Alito was asked about his personal experiences. Told explicitly that they wanted to know what was in his heart. Much like Sotomayor was asked to speak about diversity.

    The difference is he never alluded to any notions that his job was anything other than what it actually is, applying the law. He made a point of going out of his way to say that even though a case about a child might make him think about his child he can not bend the law, favor an outcome, change the law, etc. As a judge he will apply the law.

    He also never said having a penis or being Italian was gonna make him a better judge than some colored chick with a vag. Had he said that he wouldn't have gotten confirmed. All hell would've broke loose.
    I quoted you his saying and he meant what he said. He would take poverty and race into consideration. You choose to ignore it.

    Be the bushbot, I don't care. Alito is as bad as her.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I quoted you his saying and he meant what he said. He would take poverty and race into consideration. You choose to ignore it.

    Be the bushbot, I don't care. Alito is as bad as her.
    He said he takes it into account that he thinks about these things. In other words he is aware that certain cases bring up personal feelings for him.

    He never said anything that insinuated his heritage, gender, family, or personal feelings effects his rulings. He made a point -in fact - of saying explicitly that it did not. That his job was to apply the law, not change it, not bend it.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quite different from Sotomayer saying they need to work to get even more Latino women on the bench so they can that get a better measurement of what changes they are capable of enacting.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    He said he takes it into account that he thinks about these things. In other words he is aware that certain cases bring up personal feelings for him.

    He never said anything that insinuated his heritage, gender, family, or personal feelings effects his rulings. He made a point -in fact - of saying explicitly that it did not. That his job was to apply the law, not change it, not bend it.
    When he says he takes these things into account, that means his judgment. Why else would he take it into account?

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    When he says he takes these things into account, that means his judgment. Why else would he take it into account?
    I already debunked this god damn trash. Quit flinging it all over again like a money with his feces. Alito was asked about him the person, not him the jurist. He even went out of the way to make it clear he was not allowing these personal feelings to have any impact on his decisions as a jurist.,

    I added some fancy fonts in hopes to maintain your attention.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    When he says he takes these things into account, that means his judgment. Why else would he take it into account?
    I think he means he takes it into account that certain cases bring these things up. That he admittedly can't help his mind from going there. By taking it into account, he's aware of it. He certainly doesn't mean, like Sotomayor, that he thinks it's ok they effect his rulings. He specifically says quite clearly they can't. His job is to apply the law, not bend it. He can have no agenda. No favorable outcome.

    It's quite different from this bit here where Sotomayer specifically quotes and addresses another judge who warns against allowing your personal feelings to impede on your judging:

    Now Judge Cedarbaum expresses concern with any analysis of women and presumably again people of color on the bench, which begins and presumably ends with the conclusion that women or minorities are different from men generally. She sees danger in presuming that judging should be gender or anything else based...
    While recognizing the potential effect of individual experiences on perception, Judge Cedarbaum nevertheless believes that judges must transcend their personal sympathies and prejudices and aspire to achieve a greater degree of fairness and integrity based on the reason of law.
    Then Sonia goes on to say she agrees but....

    Although I agree with and attempt to work toward Judge Cedarbaum's aspiration, I wonder whether achieving that goal is possible in all or even in most cases.
    She later again seems to underscore that Cedarbaum's warnings are pretty much going unheeded.....

    Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, a possibility I abhor less or discount less than my colleague Judge Cedarbaum, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging.
    When I read this I think Cedarbaum is warning of the dangers of just accepting that your gender or your skin color or even your experience will effect your ruling. I also read Sotomayor saying essentially she is far less concerned and apologetic about admitting quite freely that yes these things will affect her rulings and so what???

    I can and do aspire to be greater than the sum total of my experiences but I accept my limitations. I willingly accept that we who judge must not deny the differences resulting from experience and heritage but attempt, as the Supreme Court suggests, continuously to judge when those opinions, sympathies and prejudices are appropriate.
    It's a difference in attitude and I would be weary of a judge who spoke like this no matter which side of the aisle they were on.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I think he means he takes it into account that certain cases bring these things up. That he admittedly can't help his mind from going there. By taking it into account, he's aware of it. He certainly doesn't mean, like Sotomayor, that he thinks it's ok they effect his rulings. He specifically says quite clearly they can't. His job is to apply the law, not bend it. He can have no agenda. No favorable outcome.
    When you take something into account, you add it up with what you are thinking.

    This isn't just a casual I think about it, but let it go, he said he takes it into account, that means his decisions.

    If he didn't take it into account (as he says) he would just say I think about it, but don't let it interfere. He says take it into account which means to add it up in his decisions.

    Words have meaning and "taken into account" means added up in his decisions.

    Again, he was a bad choice, but conservatives and Bush loyalists let it go.

    That was wrong.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Then why do we need a multi-teired court system if every one seeing the law will rule the same way? Why is it that over half the cases ruled on by the supreme court are overturned by that court? Why are most supreme court cases not unanimous?
    Well obviously there are minor variations as I said. Other than that it is multi-tiered because the above courts are meant to act as a check on the lower ones as one court may be tempted to abuse its power. Judicial activism also has a part to play in many of the things you talk about. Unfortunately some people have some silly ideas about making constitutions and laws mere guidelines and giving judges quite a bit of arbitrary power such as the abomination known as "the living constitution".
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-30-09 at 12:13 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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