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Thread: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post

    So why would I feel the same way about these two?

    Oh I don't know maybe because of this statement by Alitos:

    And that goes down the line. When I get a case about discrimination, I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender. And I do take that into account.
    Alito: My family’s immigrant experience shaped judicial outlook - Daily Kos TV (beta)

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Gender and ethnicity are part of experience. Men and women have different upbringing, leading to a different set of experiences. You have never had a gynecological exam, or a yeast infection, just to name a couple quick things off the top of my head(due to a stupid joke my brother told me earlier). A hispanic has a different set of experiences from a black person from a white person.
    And two hispanics have different experiences from each other. As do two women, two men, two blacks, two celts, two anglo-saxons, two inuits, et cetera.

    So why focus on gender and ethnicity to the exclusion of the vast spectrum of other experiential components?

    Why limit your thinking and your appraisal of your fellow man to just those two qualities?

    Sotomayor is from the South Bronx, as I recall. She is (horrors!) a Yankees fan. What role do those experiential components play in her jurisprudence? Why derogate those components in favor of gender and ethnicity? By what logic and ethic do you or she assert the primacy of gender and ethnicity?

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    And two hispanics have different experiences from each other. As do two women, two men, two blacks, two celts, two anglo-saxons, two inuits, et cetera.

    So why focus on gender and ethnicity to the exclusion of the vast spectrum of other experiential components?

    Why limit your thinking and your appraisal of your fellow man to just those two qualities?

    Sotomayor is from the South Bronx, as I recall. She is (horrors!) a Yankees fan. What role do those experiential components play in her jurisprudence? Why derogate those components in favor of gender and ethnicity? By what logic and ethic do you or she assert the primacy of gender and ethnicity?
    Because that was the topic of the annual event she was speaking at. Everything else you say here is true(though I will deny ever having said that).

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Oh I don't know maybe because of this statement by Alitos:



    Alito: My family’s immigrant experience shaped judicial outlook - Daily Kos TV (beta)
    Immediately there after he says,
    "It's my job to apply the law. It's not my job to change the law or bend the law to achieve any result."
    He acknowledges that he can't help thinking about his personal experiences or those of his family however he has a fundamental understanding about what his job is vs what it is not. Very different from Sotomayer who has been quoted about making policy. Nowhere does Alito say anything that even comes close to insinuating that he will think about his family and rule accordingly. Nowhere does he say that thinking about his grandparents being immigrants will effect his rulings on any case. His job is to apply the law and he understands that on a fundamental principled level.

    Nobody thinks judges can morph into robots. However there is a distinct difference between cases bringing up personal thoughts for you and you understanding that you still must simply apply the law vs. you allowing those thoughts to effect your ruling or you accepting that it will effect your ruling.

    Sotomayor is unapologetic and smug about openly allowing her experiences, her heritage, & her gender to affect how she rules.

    That is the difference between Alito and Sonia Sotomayor.
    Last edited by talloulou; 05-29-09 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Immediately there after he says,

    He acknowledges that he can't help thinking about his personal experiences or those of his family however he has a fundamental understanding about what his job is vs what it is not. Very different from Sotomayer who has been quoted about making policy. Nowhere does Alito say anything that even comes close to insinuating that he will think about his family and rule accordingly. Nowhere does he say that thinking about his grandparents being immigrants will effect his rulings on any case. His job is to apply the law and he understands that on a fundamental principled level.

    Nobody thinks judges can morph into robots. However there is a distinct difference between cases bringing up personal thoughts for you and you understanding that you still must simply apply the law vs. you allowing those thoughts to effect your ruling or you accepting that it will effect your ruling.

    Sotomayor is unapologetic and smug about openly allowing her experiences, her heritage, & her gender to affect how she rules.

    That is the difference between Alito and Sonia Sotomayor.
    When he says he "TAKES THAT INTO ACCOUNT" he is very well saying what I said.

    You are being apologetic to Altio because he was a Bush nominee.

    I was against Altio and I am against Obama's choice.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    When he says he "TAKES THAT INTO ACCOUNT" he is very well saying what I said.

    You are being apologetic to Altio because he was a Bush nominee.

    I was against Altio and I am against Obama's choice.
    I don't think I am. Sonia Sotomayor said matter of factly that she has no issue with allowing her heritage and her gender to effect her ruling.

    Alito said no such thing and even when explaining that yes he does think about these things in a variety of cases he has an inherent understanding that it is his job to apply the law; not change it, not bend it.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    It always amazes me how long and drawn out these conversations can be. Let's just cut the crap. The woman is a racist and Obama picked her because the left is OBSESSED with race and gender.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It always amazes me how long and drawn out these conversations can be. Let's just cut the crap. The woman is a racist and Obama picked her because the left is OBSESSED with race and gender.
    Exactamundo...woops!
    Let's figure it out.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Gender and ethnicity are part of experience. Men and women have different upbringing, leading to a different set of experiences. You have never had a gynecological exam, or a yeast infection, just to name a couple quick things off the top of my head(due to a stupid joke my brother told me earlier). A hispanic has a different set of experiences from a black person from a white person.
    Surely all the experience she needs is of the fixed and original meanings of laws and the constitution and the ability to apply these in the correct, time-honoured contexts and those very, very close? She is not a legislator, exactly how useful to her job is being a hispanic, female? It is not as if she should be deciding much that is new herself.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-29-09 at 11:28 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It always amazes me how long and drawn out these conversations can be. Let's just cut the crap. The woman is a racist and Obama picked her because the left is OBSESSED with race and gender.
    So was Alito.

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