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Thread: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    How wrong you are, let us count the ways....

    Lawyers and jurists argue various merits of the law, and dissect the law to ensure that all relevant matters are fairly and thoroughly explored. There are intellectually valid differences in what weights are accorded the various relevant matters, and it is fitting that a multiple of jurists discuss such differences to achieve a balanced result.

    The distinction is that the relevant matters are: the facts of the case, the applicable law, and the Constitution. The ethnicity and the gender of the jurist is not nor should ever be a relevant matter in deciding a court case.

    Sotomayor argues otherwise, and in that she is categorically wrong; in that, she is fundamentally at odds with over two centuries of American jurisprudence.

    Pretending that her stance is anything but a gross jurisprudential error is itself the epitome of intellectual dishonesty. It is the triumph of transitory identity politics over durable standards of judicial review. It is the rationalization of racism. It is nothing less than this. And it is wrong.
    That is not quite true. She argues that judges do rule differently, based on ethnicity and gender. That is, on some level, gender and ethnicity effect how a judge rule. We cannot change our upbringing and heritage, it is a part of us, and does effect how we view things. Therefore, since law is subject to interpretation(hence the multiple levels of the court system), and different viewpoints can and are "intellectually valid", she is not saying anything really wrong.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    If her claim that people of different ethnicities, and different sexes are documented as ruling somewhat differently, then yes, we do have to accept that ethnicity affects rulings. We can deny facts all day long, but it does not make them less true.
    Unless and until you can document conclusive proof that jurists' ethnicity and gender have direct bearing on their rulings, there is no such "fact".

    The only "fact" is that different jurists may reach different conclusions about the applicability of the law to the same set of trial facts. There is no "fact" establishing that difference is due to specific variance in either ethnicity or gender of jurists, or that such variance alters a jurist's opinion in specific and predictable ways.

    Trot out the studies that establish that "fact" and then you have a claim to make. Until you do, you have nothing to say.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    La Raza means "The Race" and I'm not talking about a 10k.



    Lets get our terminology correct in this thread.

    This isn't targeted just towards you but everyone who uses it.

    There is no such thing as reverse racism.

    Someone is either racist or they are not.
    Reverse racism would mean that someone is not racist.
    What meaning of RACE ? A foot race, a horse race, a yatch race ? or does it refer to the space race ? Just asking !
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    You can choose to believe what other say or write or you can watch and listen to her racists remarks coming out of her her own mouth and believe what you hear and see. There is plenty there.
    Sotomayor racist remarks - Google Videos

    "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else".
    Sir Winston Churchill
    Funny how almost all our right wing friends(except Talloulou) keep linking just the soundbite. Here is a link to the whole speech, with things like, you know, context:

    Lecture: ‘A Latina Judge’s Voice’

    The following is the text of the Judge Mario G. Olmos Memorial Lecture in 2001, delivered at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, by appeals court judge Sonia Sotomayor. It was published in the Spring 2002 issue of Berkeley La Raza Law Journal, a symposium issue entitled "Raising the Bar: Latino and Latina Presence in the Judiciary and the Struggle for Representation," and it is reproduced here with permission from the journal.
    Note the topic she was supposed to speak on.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Unless and until you can document conclusive proof that jurists' ethnicity and gender have direct bearing on their rulings, there is no such "fact".

    The only "fact" is that different jurists may reach different conclusions about the applicability of the law to the same set of trial facts. There is no "fact" establishing that difference is due to specific variance in either ethnicity or gender of jurists, or that such variance alters a jurist's opinion in specific and predictable ways.

    Trot out the studies that establish that "fact" and then you have a claim to make. Until you do, you have nothing to say.
    I took that from Sotomayers speech actually. Here is the text I was referencing:

    The Judicature Journal has at least two excellent studies on how women on the courts of appeal and state supreme courts have tended to vote more often than their male counterpart to uphold women's claims in sex discrimination cases and criminal defendants' claims in search and seizure cases. As recognized by legal scholars, whatever the reason, not one woman or person of color in any one position but as a group we will have an effect on the development of the law and on judging.
    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/us...ewanted=4&_r=2

    Google is being a pain in the ass in finding the actual articles or another reference to them. It is just returning Sotomayers words every time....

    You got access to Lexis and can check it for me by chance?

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I think the correct translation is "Let's keep this debate related to the qualifications of the candidate and avoid divisive racial remarks."
    Really? So should we use the examples set by Democrats when they slandered and mischaracterized in the arena of public opinion the likes of Alito, Thomas, Meirs and Bork with their asinine assertions; or are you saying let's not act like the Democrats?

    Tell me what part of the public trials these good people had to go through with and the asinine treatment they received by Democrats, in one case Alito’s wife leaving the room in tears, do you think had to do with their “qualifications?”

    This should be quite a laugh. The hypocrisy of the Liberal Left certainly knows no bounds.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Really? So should we use the examples set by Democrats when they slandered and mischaracterized in the arena of public opinion the likes of Alito, Thomas, Meirs and Bork with their asinine assertions; or are you saying let's not act like the Democrats?

    Tell me what part of the public trials these good people had to go through with and the asinine treatment they received by Democrats, in one case Alito’s wife leaving the room in tears, do you think had to do with their “qualifications?”

    This should be quite a laugh. The hypocrisy of the Liberal Left certainly knows no bounds.
    Any excuse that starts with "well, they did it so we should be able to too" is weak.

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Make no mistake by being a racist in support of this wildly racist person. Sotomayor belongs to a subversive group and should be rejected .... Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and parts of Colorado and Texas belong to Aztlan is the view of the Race which she is a member. Not further look at her is needed. She does fit in with the Obamas's if you just be honest about the racist first lady in her own words. It's time to read Sotomayor's own words and not fall for the argument that her statements are taken out of context brcause there is no context in which they are anything but offensive and or racist depending on which of her outrageous remarks you read or quote.
    She needs to be forced to withdraw before it even comes to hearings. And never, never back down in fear of being called a racist but leftists who are threatening us not to tell the truth about this poor excuse for an American or we'll be sorry.
    Please provide a link that proves those willy nilly claims?

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That is not quite true. She argues that judges do rule differently, based on ethnicity and gender. That is, on some level, gender and ethnicity effect how a judge rule. We cannot change our upbringing and heritage, it is a part of us, and does effect how we view things. Therefore, since law is subject to interpretation(hence the multiple levels of the court system), and different viewpoints can and are "intellectually valid", she is not saying anything really wrong.
    Judges rule differently. There is no dispute over that.

    That gender and ethnicity are specific and quantifiable factors in their rulings, as Sotomayor suggests, is unsupported and unsupportable. Further, even if it could be supported, the proper use of such factoids is to incorporate into legal education the quantified impact of gender and ethnicity, to ensure that such irrelevancies are eradicated from jurisprudence.

    Further, asserting gender and ethnicity as the determining personal characteristics makes no accommodation for any other personal characteristics. Consider: is Sotomayor's outlook predicated more on her gender and Latina heritage, or on her rather impoverished childhood in the South Bronx? If the latter, does that not mean her conclusion about ethnicity and gender on the bench is in error?

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    Re: W.H. to Sotomayor critics: Be 'careful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You got access to Lexis and can check it for me by chance?
    Unfortunately, no I don't. However, if the studies are the ones I am thinking of, my recollection is they show correlation, not causation. Sotomayor is asserting causation. Not the same thing.

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