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Thread: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Where is these licenses does it say the parties are required to be advantageous to the state?




    I notice you stopped pursuing the accuracy of how the state is a party to the contract.

    The license does not need to explain why the state chose to be a party to the contract. If you wish to believe that this was done for reasons that have nothing to do with creating a favorable environment for the state, it doesnít change the fact that it isnít private.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I notice you stopped pursuing the accuracy of how the state is a party to the contract.

    The license does not need to explain why the state chose to be a party to the contract. If you wish to believe that this was done for reasons that have nothing to do with creating a favorable environment for the state, it doesnít change the fact that it isnít private.
    Because the issue of the state being a party has been addressed. I try to avoid circular debating.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No.. you have taken race-based decisions and said they can apply to orientation-based cases. What you have NOT shown is that orientation is a class on par with race and gender when dealing with disctimination.

    You want to use the classes interchangeably, without having shown that they are interchangeable.

    We all know that the law does not allow for blanket discrimination based on race and gender, but it DOES allow for specific discrimination based on same -- that there are specific isntances where is IS OK to discriminate on race and gender.

    What we do NOT know is the extent to which discrimination based on orientation is allowed -- you ASSUME the limits are the same because you ASSUME that orientation is of the same class as race/gender, but you have done nothing to SHOW that this is the case.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058048273
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Because the issue of the state being a party has been addressed. I try to avoid circular debating.
    You didnít address the fact that the state is a party to the contract. You tried to pretend they werenít. You even claimed that it is a contract between two people, then posted documents showing that the state is a principal party in the contract.

    I agree you are going around in circles to avoid admitting that your side of the debate is based on emotion and not fact

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    See what I'm talking about?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    You didnít address the fact that the state is a party to the contract. You tried to pretend they werenít. You even claimed that it is a contract between two people, then posted documents showing that the state is a principal party in the contract.

    I agree you are going around in circles to avoid admitting that your side of the debate is based on emotion and not fact
    The state recognizes the legality of the marriage, but that is where the involvement of the state ends. The main (and therefore "principle") parties of the contract are the people in the marriage. What role does the state play during a marriage? None. There is no requirement that the people involved in a marriage should be "advantageous to the state." There is nothing in a marriage contract that says anything like that.

    I have yet to see any case where the married persons must be "advantageous to the state". That is not a requirement of marriage, never has been. I have yet to hear any marrying person say, "I cannot wait to be advantageous to the state", or "I cannot wait to be married to the state", or anything remotely close to it.

    As far as me basing my side of the debate on emotions, I have been the one citing case law, and I have provided copies of marriage licenses to prove my point. That doesn't seem like someone basing their debate on emotions. Basing this on emotions would probably seem more related to someone who is not supporting their opinions with evidence.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    The state recognizes the legality of the marriage, but that is where the involvement of the state ends.
    That is all the involvement required to make the statement that marriage is private to be false.

    Secular Marriage involved a collection of individuals recognizing, and even bestowing privilege on people. There is absolutely nothing private about it.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    What role does the state play during a marriage?
    There are several one being the right to inheritance of the spouses home should one die tax free. And I know you are saying "during". Another right the right of hospital visitation.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    That is all the involvement required to make the statement that marriage is private to be false.

    Secular Marriage involved a collection of individuals recognizing, and even bestowing privilege on people. There is absolutely nothing private about it.
    What role does the state play during a marriage?
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    There are several one being the right to inheritance of the spouses home should one die tax free. And I know you are saying "during". Another right the right of hospital visitation.
    That is not the state getting involved with the marriage, it is the state getting involved with the hospital. The state is not saying a spouse has to visit the other spouse, it is saying the hospital must allow the option of visitations by a spouse. It is an issue of the hospital, not the marriage.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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