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Thread: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

  1. #71
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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Argument 1: Gays can marry people of different genders the same as heterosexuals.

    Argument used in Loving v. Virginia:
    White can marry white the same as blacks can marry blacks.

    The arguments are similar....
    But they are not necessarily similar enough for the legal position ion one instance to be legitimately applied to the other -- one is based on race, and the other is based on orientation.

    I have been asking you to show that, in terms of resolving discrimination issues, that orientation is on par with race and gender. You havent done that.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    the state is the principal party in the contract.
    Show how this was succesfully used as an argument against interracial marriage and you'll have something. Until then the state being the 'principal party' to a private matter that doesn't concern the public is irrelevant.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    But they are not necessarily similar enough for the legal position ion one instance to be legitimately applied to the other -- one is based on race, and the other is based on orientation.

    I have been asking you to show that, in terms of resolving discrimination issues, that orientation is on par with race and gender. You havent done that.
    I have shown that arguments against racial marriage are similar to same-sex marriage, you have been cutting them out of my responses.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I am not aware of any marriage contract containing a promise that the parties involved will be deemed advantageous to the state. The promises made are between the individuals involved, not the state, so the principle parties are individuals.
    Secular marriage only exists because a collective of individuals deem it advantageous to recognize it.

    The state that issues a secular marriage license is a principal party in the contract. This is a fact.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Show how this was succesfully used as an argument against interracial marriage and you'll have something. Until then the state being the 'principal party' to a private matter that doesn't concern the public is irrelevant.
    You seem to be confused about what you are debating.

    Iím not defending the origins of the marriage license.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Discriminate against somebody for being gay in the workplace and they can sue you for discrimination.

    Discriminate against somebody because of their skin color in the workplace and they can sue you for discrimination.

    A few bigots kill a white lesbian in Texas because of her sexuality and they get charged with hate crimes on top of murder.

    A few bigots kill a black woman in Texas because of her skin color and they get charged with hate crimes on top of murder.

    Attack somebody based on ther color of the skin and you get hate crimes on top of assault.

    Attack somebody because of their sexual orientation and you get hate crimes on top of assault.

    For people to still argue that race, gender and sexuality aren't on the same level seems pretty ridiculous considering how our laws view discrimination.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    You seem to be confused about what you are debating.

    Iím not defending the origins of the marriage license.
    You seem to not be able to understand anything that doesn't have a Ron Paul sticker on it. A marriage license being public record means nothing as far as wether it should be legalized or not. Bringing up marriage licenses is a red herring.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I have shown that arguments against racial marriage are similar to same-sex marriage, you have been cutting them out of my responses.
    No.. you have taken race-based decisions and said they can apply to orientation-based cases. What you have NOT shown is that orientation is a class on par with race and gender when dealing with disctimination.

    You want to use the classes interchangeably, without having shown that they are interchangeable.

    We all know that the law does not allow for blanket discrimination based on race and gender, but it DOES allow for specific discrimination based on same -- that there are specific isntances where is IS OK to discriminate on race and gender.

    What we do NOT know is the extent to which discrimination based on orientation is allowed -- you ASSUME the limits are the same because you ASSUME that orientation is of the same class as race/gender, but you have done nothing to SHOW that this is the case.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    The promise to enter into a relationship that the state deems advantageous to the state.


    a marriage license is a secular contract between the parties and the State. The State is the principal party in that contract. Since the state is the principal party to the contract, how exactly is it private?
    Where is these licenses does it say the parties are required to be advantageous to the state?



    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No.. you have taken race-based decisions and said they can apply to orientation-based cases. What you have NOT shown is that orientation is a class on par with race and gender when dealing with disctimination.

    You want to use the classes interchangeably, without having shown that they are interchangeable.

    We all know that the law does not allow for blanket discrimination based on race and gender, but it DOES allow for specific discrimination based on same -- that there are specific isntances where is IS OK to discriminate on race and gender.

    What we do NOT know is the extent to which discrimination based on orientation is allowed -- you ASSUME the limits are the same because you ASSUME that orientation is of the same class as race/gender, but you have done nothing to SHOW that this is the case.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058047950
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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