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Thread: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm not so sure. If you've noticed here there are a few who argue that gays and pedophiles run in the same circles. That to me if done on a national scale(think the deceiving ads for proposition 8) could turn public opinion sharply against gay marriage. Americans are a dumb bunch and being told that somebody are after their children is an easy way to get them to support almost anything.
    Uh, exactly, "a few"...very, very few..a fringe minority of radicals.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm not so sure. If you've noticed here there are a few who argue that gays and pedophiles run in the same circles. That to me if done on a national scale(think the deceiving ads for proposition 8) could turn public opinion sharply against gay marriage. Americans are a dumb bunch and being told that somebody are after their children is an easy way to get them to support almost anything.
    This is an easy point to dispute and since the case would be argued in court, not in the public, it wouldn't matter how dumb the American public is. There is no evidence that gays and pedophile run in the same circles...except from the precise fringe bigots that I spoke about before...those that are easily dismissed. Also, if publicity is a problem, the pro-GM side has their issues, too. I know several people who would be excellent "poster-couples". Stable, long-term relationships, rearing children successfully. Pull some of these out along with all of the data, and publicize this. Those "fringers" will then be seen as the bigots that they are.

    The family argument is the winning position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is an easy point to dispute and since the case would be argued in court, not in the public, it wouldn't matter how dumb the American public is. There is no evidence that gays and pedophile run in the same circles...except from the precise fringe bigots that I spoke about before...those that are easily dismissed. Also, if publicity is a problem, the pro-GM side has their issues, too. I know several people who would be excellent "poster-couples". Stable, long-term relationships, rearing children successfully. Pull some of these out along with all of the data, and publicize this. Those "fringers" will then be seen as the bigots that they are.

    The family argument is the winning position.
    The unanswered question remains: How many gays are actually raising children?

    You would need to show that your poster couples are representative samples of the general gay population, otherwise they're no more distinguished than familial couples raising children.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Look Hatuey, you have a strong Conservative and a strong Progressive telling you the exact same thing. I think you should listen

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The unanswered question remains: How many gays are actually raising children?

    You would need to show that your poster couples are representative samples of the general gay population, otherwise they're no more distinguished than familial couples raising children.
    I think I posted some approximate stats a while back, but I do not recall, exactly. Considering the US population and the number of families with children, the number was statistically significant, though considering the US population, a statistically significant number would not need to be a huge percentage from a research perspective considering raw numbers.

    If I recall my data, gay couples matched up pretty consistently with straight couples across the board, though I believe that the one area of difference was in net income; gay couples tended to be higher in this aspect, at least on average.

    Regardless, I think a cross-section of gay couples would be better than presenting a "typical" gay couple. More folks could relate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #36
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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I think I posted some approximate stats a while back, but I do not recall, exactly. Considering the US population and the number of families with children, the number was statistically significant, though considering the US population, a statistically significant number would not need to be a huge percentage from a research perspective considering raw numbers.

    If I recall my data, gay couples matched up pretty consistently with straight couples across the board, though I believe that the one area of difference was in net income; gay couples tended to be higher in this aspect, at least on average.

    Regardless, I think a cross-section of gay couples would be better than presenting a "typical" gay couple. More folks could relate.
    Very true.

    In order to press this winning position, pro-gm will have to come up with some hard numbers and links to credible sources.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Look Hatuey, you have a strong Conservative and a strong Progressive telling you the exact same thing. I think you should listen
    This is the thing. You and I have debated this issue many times in the past 3 years and always come to the same agreeing point. Regardless of position, gay marriage as an equality position is a loser. As a family position it is a winner. This is where the pro-GMers have it wrong, and where the religious, actually, have it right. From the wrong position, IMO, but they have the concept correct. That's why they are on the winning end. Everyone, personally, can relate to family. Not everyone can relate, personally, to inequality.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #38
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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Very true.

    In order to press this winning position, pro-gm will have to come up with some hard numbers and links to credible sources.
    Thing is, they're there and readily available. It always amazes me that when I can post 12-16 strong studies and come up with numbers from the internet in 10 minutes, why these folks keep focusing on a position that has created minimal movement and is not going to hold up in court. If they use the 14th Amendment, Loving, and black civil rights as the cornerstone of their position, they cannot win. There are far too many holes in all of these points.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You didn't think the court was going to just roll over on this completely did you?
    I told you, the 18,000 legally married gay couples in CA changes the game, as it were, entirely.

    Do you think the Supreme Court is made up of conservative judicial activists? (Scalia aside)


    The already have it under existing Domestic Partnership law.
    Didn't do your homework, I see. Still don't know what you're talking about.



    I sure have, I've been quoting it to people like yourself who, no insult intended, don't seem to know yourself what the law actually is.
    You've quoted nothing to me.

    Even if the Domestic Partnership laws covered EVERYTHING, which they don't, not even close, the bottom line is--separate is not equal.

    Does that sound familiar?

    Now we have a legal class same-sex married in CA. The 'new' CA constitution bars other same-sex couples from joining that class.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    I think they are taking a huge risk, considering that DOMA has not be yet been shot down. They should attack DOMA first before they bring up gay marriage.

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