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Thread: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I agree with those who see this as presumptuous. I do not think this case can be won in declaring Prop 8 unconstitutional. Though I am pro-GM, I have always purported that going the equality route is not the way and a loser of a position. If the pro-GM movement would focus on family, health, and childrenm they would have already won this thing. Heck, I've posted enough evidence at DP for them to win.

    Wrong focus, wrong timing.
    Why people get married is of as little business to strangers as who they marry. When I got married I didn't have to put a reason down. I mean I could have gotten married for tax purposes, fraud purposes etc. But I didn't have to cite a single reason for getting married. That gay people would even have to make an argument as to why they want to marry is simply ridiculous. The Christian Right that so strongly opposes gay marriage won't support gays having a family any more then they will getting married.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-28-09 at 04:29 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I agree with those who see this as presumptuous. I do not think this case can be won in declaring Prop 8 unconstitutional. Though I am pro-GM, I have always purported that going the equality route is not the way and a loser of a position. If the pro-GM movement would focus on family, health, and childrenm they would have already won this thing. Heck, I've posted enough evidence at DP for them to win.

    Wrong focus, wrong timing.
    As I read your post I reflect on a recent heated discussion with another member who wants his adultery against his out-of-state husband seen as socially 'equal' to any 2 parent home raising children.

    I'm sorry, but gays in general, as a group, are not projecting an image that resembles anything like what the typical American thinks a marriage is or should be.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Why people get married is of as little business to strangers as who they marry. When I got married I didn't have to put a reason down. I mean I could have gotten married for tax purposes, fraud purposes etc. But I didn't have to cite a single reason for getting married. That gay people would even have to make an argument as to why they want to marry is simply ridiculous. The Christian Right that so strongly opposes gay marriage won't support gays having a family any more then they will getting married.
    Not when the result is a high divorce rate.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not when the result is a high divorce rate.
    How is this reason to not recognize gay marriage again? It isn't? Oh alright. Thanks for the non sequitur.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-28-09 at 04:34 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Why people get married is of as little business to strangers as who they marry.
    I don't disagree with you. I'm not suggesting what is right and fair. I'm suggesting how it can be won. Winning it on the equality front will be a long, tenuous and not assuredly a successful route. Going after it on the family route is practically an impregnable position. You've participated in enough of these debates on this issue, here, Hatuey. The equality debate gets slammed and countered, repeatedly, and often ends in a stalemate. Usually I wait until the smoke clears, present my family/child position in a few posts and the only ones who go after me are those who expose themselves as bigots who have no position or substantiation.

    It's not about what is right, but what can be won. The pro-GM movement needs to bite the bullet, abandon the equality position and use the family/child debate. Does it really matter how they get what they want, as long as they get it?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't disagree with you. I'm not suggesting what is right and fair. I'm suggesting how it can be won. Winning it on the equality front will be a long, tenuous and not assuredly a successful route. Going after it on the family route is practically an impregnable position. You've participated in enough of these debates on this issue, here, Hatuey. The equality debate gets slammed and countered, repeatedly, and often ends in a stalemate. Usually I wait until the smoke clears, present my family/child position in a few posts and the only ones who go after me are those who expose themselves as bigots who have no position or substantiation.

    It's not about what is right, but what can be won. The pro-GM movement needs to bite the bullet, abandon the equality position and use the family/child debate. Does it really matter how they get what they want, as long as they get it?
    I think it should be on grounds of privacy the same way that Roe V. Wade was won. A marriage is a contract between two individuals and nobody else. Not society, not religion and not the opposers of gay marriage.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I think it should be on grounds of privacy the same way that Roe V. Wade was won. A marriage is a contract between two individuals and nobody else. Not society, not religion and not the opposers of gay marriage.
    Privacy could be an ancillary issue, only, what with the government's vested interest in the rearing of children. If family is put in the forefront, this is an easy case to win.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    How is this reason to not recognize gay marriage again? It isn't? Oh alright. Thanks for the non sequitur.
    That's one way to troll, sure.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I think it should be on grounds of privacy the same way that Roe V. Wade was won. A marriage is a contract between two individuals and nobody else. Not society, not religion and not the opposers of gay marriage.
    The problem you encounter is that the state issues the license and your marriage is a matter of public record.

    Don't like society? Don't live in one.

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    Re: Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Privacy could be an ancillary issue, only, what with the government's vested interest in the rearing of children. If family is put in the forefront, this is an easy case to win.
    I'm not so sure. If you've noticed here there are a few who argue that gays and pedophiles run in the same circles. That to me if done on a national scale(think the deceiving ads for proposition 8) could turn public opinion sharply against gay marriage. Americans are a dumb bunch and being told that somebody are after their children is an easy way to get them to support almost anything.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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