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Thread: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails


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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    A very fair, unbiased, and open minded source and article...
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    A very fair, unbiased, and open minded source and article...
    You are familiar with Stephen J. Lubben? What do you have against his work?

  4. #44
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are familiar with Stephen J. Lubben? What do you have against his work?
    I'm just laughing at the idea that anyone who talked about CDO swaps being a bad idea in 2007 is "prescient." The fact that they were going south was public knowledge for years.

    Aside from that, he's using circular logic to avoid the point - if the assets aren't worth $2b, then going into bankruptcy is theoretically a bad idea for the bondholders. However, the bondholders obviously think there's something to gain from going into the bankruptcy, and they're entitled under law to make that decision, so what's the problem? If they're right, they're right, if not, they're not. Since we can assume that sophisticated investors aren't retards, they probably have a good basis for their assumptions.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #45
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are familiar with Stephen J. Lubben? What do you have against his work?
    actually, the link wanted some sort of premium login, it's Salon.com, not really a site I have much respect for.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  6. #46
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    actually, the link wanted some sort of premium login, it's Salon.com, not really a site I have much respect for.
    Wonder why it works for me, not something I would pay money for...

    Sorry about that, thought it was a good link. The guy in question predicted a couple years ago the stuff coming up with hedge funds that we are seeing today. His take on the Chrysler bankruptcy is interesting, basically condemning everyone involved.

  7. #47
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    They make more money from bankruptcy, so tend to hold out and not settle. Something wrong with the system there.
    While that generally is true for most bankruptcies, is that actually true for GM? What is the face value of the bonds held by the debt holders compared to the fair market value of the assets that can be liquidated? Furthermore, as these bond holders perfected or are they just general bold holders?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Ok, I know for sure you know more on this than me, so maybe you can answer a question for me in this regard: shouldn't the system be that the bondholders benefit more from settling outside of bankruptcy, than in bankruptcy?
    I feel that would normally be the case without the governments hands up certain companies azzes.
    Thank you

  9. #49
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    actually, the link wanted some sort of premium login, it's Salon.com, not really a site I have much respect for.
    Dude. That was sad.

    Who is screwing with bankruptcy law? - How the World Works - Salon.com

    No premium login when I tried.

    The article is pretty good. Just because it comes from a site you normally don't read doesn't mean its wrong.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 05-28-09 at 01:55 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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