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Thread: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

  1. #31
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Create paperwork and uphold the rule of law.
    So paper work and billing fees are the rule of law? I've been involved in a few situations where lawyers took advantage of the situation.




    If a large manufacturer lost half its machine workers, .
    Great so sell a piss poor product. It might work for a little bit on late night TV.

  2. #32
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, I should correct what I said anyway. A large portion of GM debt was bought up in the last year at discount prices by some hedge funds who are set up to do this. They are betting on getting more from the restructuring than they spent.

    Getting a lesser stake than whom? More risk how?
    Don't let hedge funds obscure you view of things.
    Smaller investors do this all the time.
    Thats what speculators do, hedge funds at times are giant speculation machines. Sometimes they win big, other times the loose big.

    The managers are paid to do that, their capital is still at risk.

    I could buy GM bonds tomorrow but at this point I'm not even playing the currency market because things are crazily unstable.

    The deal presented by the gov put bond holders lower and gave a stake to the UAW.

    That is not how it is supposed to work.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #33
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Neither do investors. If I own 10k shares of GM or a 100k bond I do not own the corp.
    Yes you do.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #34
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Don't let hedge funds obscure you view of things.
    Smaller investors do this all the time.
    Thats what speculators do, hedge funds at times are giant speculation machines. Sometimes they win big, other times the loose big.

    The managers are paid to do that, their capital is still at risk.

    I could buy GM bonds tomorrow but at this point I'm not even playing the currency market because things are crazily unstable.

    The deal presented by the gov put bond holders lower and gave a stake to the UAW.

    That is not how it is supposed to work.
    I am not suggesting that the hedge funds are inherently bad.

  5. #35
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, I should correct what I said anyway. A large portion of GM debt was bought up in the last year at discount prices by some hedge funds who are set up to do this. They are betting on getting more from the restructuring than they spent.
    And if they hadn't stepped in to buy, GM would have collapsed even quicker. That's how the market is supposed to work.

    Now, where the rules are being changed at will, companies are less willing to take those risks, thus ensuring that troubled companies will take the plunge a lot quicker.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  6. #36
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So paper work and billing fees are the rule of law? I've been involved in a few situations where lawyers took advantage of the situation.
    They're a necessary part of it. If people could do without it, they would.

    Great so sell a piss poor product. It might work for a little bit on late night TV.
    The auto companies have lost a lot more than half of their workforce and their quality of product hasn't dropped much lower than the **** it was making before.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am not suggesting that the hedge funds are inherently bad.
    If your seriously interested in learning how things like hedge funds work.

    There is a phone book size dummies guide that explains a lot.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #38
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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    They're a necessary part of it. If people could do without it, they would.
    .
    Yes they are and they should abide by their own rules. Unfortunately that rarely happens and the methods of recourse for the common citizen are so laced with legalese it is not economically viable to contest.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Yes you do.
    No I do not own the corp. I have shares or debt that I hope to make a buck off of, that is all.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Yes they are and they should abide by their own rules. Unfortunately that rarely happens and the methods of recourse for the common citizen are so laced with legalese it is not economically viable to contest.
    But we're talking about multi-billion dollar bankruptcies. There aren't many common citizens as parties here. Everyone involved has the best lawyers money can buy, and they're certainly worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    No I do not own the corp. I have shares or debt that I hope to make a buck off of, that is all.
    A share is by definition an ownership interest in a corporation. If I create a company and issue 1 share to each of my cousins, we own the company.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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