Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 49

Thread: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

  1. #11
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    02-14-18 @ 11:10 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Your uniformed populist rhetoric aside; the Bondholders didn't like the deal because the UNIONS would have a bigger share without any investment than they would with the newly restructured company. Can't say that I blame them.

    GM's proposal would give bondholders a 10% stake in the automaker, even though they currently own about 40% of the company's debt. The Treasury would get about a 50% stake in GM.

    Under both plans, the UAW would receive about a 40% stake in the company.


    GM's clock is ticking down - May. 22, 2009

    Yeah, that sounds like a GREAT deal to me. What a shocker that they would question such an asinine offer.
    I heard earlier today the UAW is willing to take less of stake. The whole thing is a very hard situation since so many retirees are involved on all ends.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 05:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Let them die off.

  3. #13
    Liberal Fascist For Life!

    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:38 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    94,938
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Supamanu View Post
    That or the fact that they are first in line and they are getting pushed to the back and screwed in favor of a UAW payback.
    I am not an expert on this, but as some one who works(when not laid off as now) in the auto industry I have been following all this pretty close. The above quoted is not accurate. It's close, but fails on a technicality. The governments agreement to give money to the unions is a separate deal outside of the restructuring agreement. Basically, the government is paying off the UAW for their agreement.

    Also, not that the hedge funds that are involved in this and rejecting the deal are acting as they tend to in these cases. They make more money from bankruptcy, so tend to hold out and not settle. Something wrong with the system there.

  4. #14
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    I'm pumped, because if this actually happens, it means my friends at the law firms handling the bankruptcy will definitely have jobs come this fall.

    There's 3 jobs "created or saved," just 3,999,997 more to go...
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #15
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Also, not that the hedge funds that are involved in this and rejecting the deal are acting as they tend to in these cases. They make more money from bankruptcy, so tend to hold out and not settle. Something wrong with the system there.
    That's how bankruptcy law is designed to work - what's wrong with that?

    If those protections were not available, people would be reluctant to invest in the first place. Strong investor protections are the hallmark of an stable and secure economy.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  6. #16
    Liberal Fascist For Life!

    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:38 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    94,938
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's how bankruptcy law is designed to work - what's wrong with that?

    If those protections were not available, people would be reluctant to invest in the first place. Strong investor protections are the hallmark of an stable and secure economy.
    Ok, I know for sure you know more on this than me, so maybe you can answer a question for me in this regard: shouldn't the system be that the bondholders benefit more from settling outside of bankruptcy, than in bankruptcy? It seems that the system as is is designed such that bankruptcy becomes almost an inevitability, since the bondholders have no incentive to avoid it, and in fact the incentive is to encourage it. If bankruptcy is a preferred option, why have we tried so hard to keep Chrysler and GM out of bankruptcy?

  7. #17
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    42,105
    Blog Entries
    16

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Ok, I know for sure you know more on this than me, so maybe you can answer a question for me in this regard: shouldn't the system be that the bondholders benefit more from settling outside of bankruptcy, than in bankruptcy? It seems that the system as is is designed such that bankruptcy becomes almost an inevitability, since the bondholders have no incentive to avoid it, and in fact the incentive is to encourage it. If bankruptcy is a preferred option, why have we tried so hard to keep Chrysler and GM out of bankruptcy?
    We've tried so hard because it was the popular thing to do, because the UAW would be forced into a less... advantageous agreement.

    If I invest a million into a company, my money should come before someone who doesn't invest in said company, and further more, if that company is failing, I should get the most of my money back possible.

    That's how the world works.
    Better Living Through Regulation - DNC



  8. #18
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    02-14-18 @ 11:10 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's how bankruptcy law is designed to work - what's wrong with that?
    Because all we do is create paper work. I'm an investor not a lawyer BTW.


    If those protections were not available, people would be reluctant to invest in the first place. Strong investor protections are the hallmark of an stable and secure economy.
    It is workers that create a product to sell from the assembly line worker to the engineer to the designer not the pencil pushers and they the workers creators are the people that are worth long term retirement investments. So IOW I really do not mind what is going on now because we are looking after millions of peoples investments from the mom and pop bond holder to the retired union worker. I really do not want a bunch of 60 to 80 year old people on the bread lines.
    Last edited by winston53660; 05-27-09 at 11:25 PM.

  9. #19
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    First, this isn't my area so don't take anything I say as authoritative (not that anyone should regardless of the area).

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    shouldn't the system be that the bondholders benefit more from settling outside of bankruptcy, than in bankruptcy? It seems that the system as is is designed such that bankruptcy becomes almost an inevitability, since the bondholders have no incentive to avoid it, and in fact the incentive is to encourage it. If bankruptcy is a preferred option, why have we tried so hard to keep Chrysler and GM out of bankruptcy?
    The system isn't really any particular "way" - it is what it is. Whether bankruptcy is better than the alternatives depends on the facts of each particular case and the alternatives available.

    In most cases, there aren't really any alternatives. If a company can't find a buyer and can't make ends meet, there is just bankruptcy left. In those cases, there are very particular rules about who gets what. The creditors were aware of these rules when they made their investments, so they knew what they were getting into and what they can expect.

    The reason why there's so many alternatives in these cases is because the government has an interest in how the cases turn out, so they're inserting themselves into the process, whether by advocating for a particular division, making promises to various parties, or offering incentives for other companies to come in and purchase assets. The result of this is that the normal rules don't apply. Creditors who normally could have predicted what they would get no longer have any idea. On top of that, they're being outright threatened by the government that if they don't go along with what the government wants, they will be ostracized as "not playing nice" and will get on the ****list, which absolutely nobody wants to be anywhere near nowadays.

    It's creating a lot of uncertainty, and is having significant effects on how willing corporations (esp. investment vehicles) are to get involved in anything even tangentially related to the government.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #20
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 01:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: GM bankruptcy expected as bondholder offer fails

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Because all we do is create paper work. I'm an investor not a lawyer BTW.
    You know there is a lot more to it than that.

    An investor is generally another term for creditor. You are loaning them money to expand their business.

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    It is workers that create a product to sell from the assembly line worker to the engineer to the designer not the pencil pushers and they the workers creators are the people that are worth long term retirement investments.
    With out investors they couldn't expand their business rapidly enough to create more jobs for workers to do, expand product lines, etc.

    Workers do not own the jobs they do.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •