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Thread: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

  1. #41
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    That's just more of you exposing your ignorance. I believe man is contributing to global warming, accelerating/exacerbating a naturally occurring "problem" (for us anyway). Now back to the invisible man in the sky...
    Again you have no room to mock or bash people over things you do not believe in or consider when you believe in something not real such as the man made global warming fairy tale(which a lot of you now call climate change so that even if it doesn't get warmer on a global scale you can still claim you are right).
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #42
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Nice post. However it clearly states the parent's refusal to provide medical care. Nothing about the child refusing medical care.

    There was a case here in Virginia regarding this very issue. The state tried to intervene and the circuit court prevented them from doing so. The boy's name is Abraham Cherrix. He is alive and doing fine today.

    The Abraham Cherrix Story

    They now have "Abraham's Law" on the books here in Va.

    I appreciate the article, and I did ask for a link. But there is legal precedent already, and I should have asked for the law you cite, not just a link. Sorry, I apologize.




    That's the 2nd amendment. The SCUTUS has already ruled on the age qualifier to the 2nd. So far the 1st still applies to everyone.

    It doesn't matter what the child want,the child may not want schooling because of some religious view as jallman pointed out. The parents are still required by law to not medically neglect their child and to make sure the child has schooling(regardless if it is a private,public or home school).
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #43
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Again you have no room to mock or bash people over things you do not believe in or consider when you believe in something not real such as the man made global warming fairy tale(which a lot of you now call climate change so that even if it doesn't get warmer on a global scale you can still claim you are right).
    Why can't someone with evidence for their belief criticize the lack of evidence in another's?
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  4. #44
    Educator Shep Dawg's Avatar
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It doesn't matter what the child want,the child may not want schooling because of some religious view as jallman pointed out. The parents are still required by law to not medically neglect their child and to make sure the child has schooling(regardless if it is a private,public or home school).
    The circuit court of Virginia disagrees with you. Did you read the link on Abraham's law?
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    I disagree. This conviction will be overturned. It is unconstitutional. The first amendment prohibits any law interfering with the practice of one's religious beliefs.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    So if my personal religion honestly says that not only is murder moral, but I'm obligated to kill in the name of my god; it's ok according to you. The rights of others, such as the child's innate and inalienable right to life, has nothing to do with it. Just that since it's religiously motivated it's ok.

    The reality of the situation is that it will not be overturned and will be looked at as a proper police means. Our rights are guaranteed and we are free to exercise them, but in the exercise of our rights we are not allowed to infringe upon the rights of others. There is no congressional law being made forbidding a religion. There is merely action which takes place once a murder has been committed. Religion does not give you proper excuse for murder, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    I find it interesting, and arrogant, that you believe that your personal beliefs are the only ones protected by the first amendment. You believe God isn't a vending machine, so therefore, any one who doesn't agree with you shouldn't have the right to believe the way they do. It's also interesting that you use the word "quack". This coming from someone who believes there is a giant, invisible, bearded man living in the sky.
    I find it interesting that you think murder is lawful should it be committed in the name of some god. I suppose that dude who bombed the abortion clinic shouldn't be in jail either...huh?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So if my personal religion honestly says that not only is murder moral, but I'm obligated to kill in the name of my god; it's ok according to you. The rights of others, such as the child's innate and inalienable right to life, has nothing to do with it. Just that since it's religiously motivated it's ok.

    The reality of the situation is that it will not be overturned and will be looked at as a proper police means. Our rights are guaranteed and we are free to exercise them, but in the exercise of our rights we are not allowed to infringe upon the rights of others. There is no congressional law being made forbidding a religion. There is merely action which takes place once a murder has been committed. Religion does not give you proper excuse for murder, sorry.



    I find it interesting that you think murder is lawful should it be committed in the name of some god. I suppose that dude who bombed the abortion clinic shouldn't be in jail either...huh?
    I'll give you time to read all of my post's in this thread. Most of your absurd questions were already answered. When you have done so, please feel free to post any "new" opinions. Welcome to the thread, thanks for playing. Please catch up.
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So if my personal religion honestly says that not only is murder moral, but I'm obligated to kill in the name of my god; it's ok according to you. The rights of others, such as the child's innate and inalienable right to life, has nothing to do with it. Just that since it's religiously motivated it's ok.

    The reality of the situation is that it will not be overturned and will be looked at as a proper police means. Our rights are guaranteed and we are free to exercise them, but in the exercise of our rights we are not allowed to infringe upon the rights of others. There is no congressional law being made forbidding a religion. There is merely action which takes place once a murder has been committed. Religion does not give you proper excuse for murder, sorry.



    I find it interesting that you think murder is lawful should it be committed in the name of some god. I suppose that dude who bombed the abortion clinic shouldn't be in jail either...huh?
    agree...
    Last I heard, "God told me so" is not a viable defense....
    The law of the land trumps God's law and will until God comes again and dismisses secular governments....
    But don't hold your breath waiting.
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    I'm wondering where you draw the line......

    Mom gets arrested for not having her daughter treated....

    Another mom goes on the run with her son because she says it's against her religion for him to have chemo.....

    As a mom, I find that appalling! I, personally, think the gift of medicine comes from God and he instills in a choice few, the passion to help people.

    On the flip side........ If government is given the power to act, will THEY be able to draw the line? Are they going to extend that power and tell YOU, the parent, how your children should be treated?

    I agree, to let your child go without medical attention that would save their life is indeed criminal !!

    I'm just don't trust the government enough to make that discernment.


    Last edited by Pitwolfy; 05-27-09 at 12:19 PM.
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    I'll give you time to read all of my post's in this thread. Most of your absurd questions were already answered. When you have done so, please feel free to post any "new" opinions. Welcome to the thread, thanks for playing. Please catch up.
    I read the thread, and it doesn't excuse the fact that you tried to excuse murder through religion and now are trying to back out. The girl didn't refuse medical treatment, her mother did. Once you infringe upon the rights of someone else you've committed a crime and can rightfully be arrested, charged, and convicted as was done in this case. But if smarmy responses and dodges is all you want to engage in, then noted.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I read the thread, and it doesn't excuse the fact that you tried to excuse murder through religion and now are trying to back out. The girl didn't refuse medical treatment, her mother did. Once you infringe upon the rights of someone else you've committed a crime and can rightfully be arrested, charged, and convicted as was done in this case. But if smarmy responses and dodges is all you want to engage in, then noted.
    Seriously? You read the thread, and you came up with this. Obviously your reading comprehension skills are not one of your strengths. Here, allow me help you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Please cite what law is being violated by one refusing treatment. Please don't cite personal opinion, please cite the actual statute.

    All of the examples you cited are in direct violation of law. Killing a man is murder. Whatever act of terrorism you mention must also be a law in order to prosecute. Act of terrorism a extremely vague, you need to be more specific.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Personally I don't disagree with you. The first amendment is just far too important to have every judge interpreting what it means and to whom it applies. The child has a right to medical care. If the child is being denied medical care and want's medical care, then clearly the parents are liable. However, if the child's belief is in divine intervention, and faith healing (even if taught by the parent's) then it's out of the court's hands. The first amendment doesn't have an age clause in it. Therefore it applies to everyone, regardless of age. In fact I would argue if there is any ambiguity, it would favor the child's rights, as when the first amendment was written and ratified, children were considered to be adults at a much younger age.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Thanks, I believe I got the point. In fact I agree with him. However...Some people believe God is there to tend to their every need through prayer and divine intervention. They certainly have that right, even if I personally disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Which means that it is up to the parents. If the child had religious beliefs in divine intervention, then the courts hands are tied.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    The parents are making the decision with the child. The child isn't making the decision by themselves. It just seems that the majority of the people disagree with them, as do I. But they a right to believe God is capable of (or responsible for) whatever they choose to believe.
    I will ask you to please cite the actual statute that says refusing treatment is against the law. Denying treatment to another is a whole other issue.

    Please post the link to your claim the the child, in this case, desired treatment. I have not heard that, and if that is the case, then the facts of the case change.

    Explain how I ever even implied religion is an excuse for murder. And how I'm trying to back out. I'm here defending my position, hardly backing away.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote Benjamin Franklin

    I'm a Tiki Bar Tarte, wanna gnaw on my bone

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