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Thread: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

  1. #31
    Educator Shep Dawg's Avatar
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    A parent refusing medical treatment for a child is defined as neglect.

    Child Neglect

    Medical neglect

    Medical neglect is the failure to provide appropriate health care for a child (although financially able to do so), thus placing the child at risk of being seriously disabled or disfigured or dying. According to NCANDS, in 2005, 2 percent of children (17,637 children) in the United States were victims of medical neglect (USDHHS, 2007). Concern is warranted not only when a parent refuses medical care for a child in an emergency or for an acute illness, but also when a parent ignores medical recommendations for a child with a treatable chronic disease or disability, resulting in frequent hospitalizations or significant deterioration.

    Even in non-emergency situations, medical neglect can result in poor overall health and compounded medical problems.

    Parents may refuse medical care for their children for different reasons religious beliefs, fear or anxiety about a medical condition or treatment, or financial issues. Child protective services agencies generally will intervene when:


    * Medical treatment is needed in an acute emergency (e.g., a child needs a blood transfusion to treat shock);
    * A child with a life-threatening chronic disease is not receiving needed medical treatment (e.g., a child with diabetes is not receiving medication); or
    * A child has a chronic disease that can cause disability or disfigurement if left untreated (e.g., a child with congenital cataracts needs surgery to prevent blindness).

    In these cases, child protection services agencies may seek a court order for medical treatment to save the childís life or prevent life-threatening injury, disability or disfigurement.

    Although medical neglect is highly correlated with poverty, there is a distinction between a caregiverís inability to provide the needed care based on cultural norms or the lack of financial resources and a caregiverís knowing reluctance or refusal to provide care. Children and their families may be in need of services even though the parent may not be intentionally neglectful. When poverty limits a parentís resources to adequately provide necessities for the child, services may be offered to help families provide for their children.

    Religion and the Refusal of Medical Treatment: Rights and Responsibilities - Associated Content

    Adults Can Say No for Themselves but Not for Children
    There are certain religious groups that don't believe in traditional medicine and instead turn to prayer and other means to heal themselves. Some of these people refuse medical treatment for their children, and some of these children die as a consequence. Given these issues, it is
    important to explore what a person can or cannot do to avoid having trouble with the law and what some of consequences might be for someone refusing to give medical care to a child.

    The law upholds an adult's right to refuse medical care. That's because of the freedom of religion clause in the Constitution. On the other hand, that person must be adjudged mentally competent to be able to make a reasonable decision. So people who are members of Christian Science or Jehovah's Witnesses, or fundamental Christians may refuse medical treatment so long as they are capable of making a rational decision about it.

    The same does not hold true in the case of children. Children are vulnerable, and the law supports the view that the child, when it comes to health, is part of an overall concern that the state has for the protection and welfare of those who are unable to protect or defend themselves. Therefore, if a parent refuses medical care and the child dies, the parent may face legal consequences as a result.
    Nice post. However it clearly states the parent's refusal to provide medical care. Nothing about the child refusing medical care.

    There was a case here in Virginia regarding this very issue. The state tried to intervene and the circuit court prevented them from doing so. The boy's name is Abraham Cherrix. He is alive and doing fine today.

    The Abraham Cherrix Story

    They now have "Abraham's Law" on the books here in Va.

    I appreciate the article, and I did ask for a link. But there is legal precedent already, and I should have asked for the law you cite, not just a link. Sorry, I apologize.


    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So the same child should be able to walk into a walmart and buy a gun without the presence of a parent?
    That's the 2nd amendment. The SCUTUS has already ruled on the age qualifier to the 2nd. So far the 1st still applies to everyone.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote Benjamin Franklin

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  2. #32
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    Which means that it is up to the parents. If the child had religious beliefs in divine intervention, then the courts hands are tied.
    Not true. If there is criminal negligence on the part of the parents, then the state may step in and administer care for the child. The beliefs of the child are irrelevant when such a thing is necessary. It's the same thing as if a child doesn't believe in school but a truant officer will still show up to take him there if he does not attend.

    That's just one precedent. There are a plethora of others.

  3. #33
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    This is what religion does to people. It makes them believe the unbelievable which gives them grounds to do and say the most ignorant things. ALL religious people suffer from this to one degree or another. This is just a moderately extreme example of such nuttery.
    You've apparently never met a hippie.

    I have friends who had **** go untreated their entire lives because their parents insisted on treating symptoms with herbal essences and meditation.

    Stupidity cuts across religious lines.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #34
    Educator Shep Dawg's Avatar
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Not true. If there is criminal negligence on the part of the parents, then the state may step in and administer care for the child. The beliefs of the child are irrelevant when such a thing is necessary.
    Please see previous posts regarding criminal negligence.

    The State will step in, but they will most likely lose on appeal. Please see previous post about Abraham's law.



    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's the same thing as if a child doesn't believe in school but a truant officer will still show up to take him there if he does not attend.

    That's just one precedent. There are a plethora of others.
    I home schooled my daughter during her 5th grade year. All I had to do was make sure she completed the work, and answer questions for her. I have never had a truant officer come to my house.
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote Benjamin Franklin

    I'm a Tiki Bar Tarte, wanna gnaw on my bone

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
    I home schooled my daughter during her 5th grade year. All I had to do was make sure she completed the work, and answer questions for her. I have never had a truant officer come to my house.
    Provisions were made for her education. Rest assured if they weren't, you would have gotten a knock at your door.

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Someone who believes in the man made global warming fairy tale has absolutely no room what so ever to mock or bash people just because they believe in a supreme being. Oh no the world is over heating we got to increase taxes, buy carbon credits, recycle and make kids watch Al Gore's film or else the polar ice caps will melt and the world will flood.
    That's just more of you exposing your ignorance. I believe man is contributing to global warming, accelerating/exacerbating a naturally occurring "problem" (for us anyway). Now back to the invisible man in the sky...

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Moderately extreme? Dude, if I ever doubted your sense of perspective before...
    Blowing yourself up with innocent civilians being the extreme, extreme.

  8. #38
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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    So, all you people that think the decision to medically treat a child should lay in the power of the parents... was this mother right? Her decision to "pray her daughter back to health" killed her. Should someone have stepped in to force insulin into this little girl's veins... to save her life?
    Now the obvious, as in some were bound to make them because of their own agendas, and lame attacks on religion that have come and are likely to come from some quarters in this thread makes me reluctant to even post in it but I'll give my two pence.

    Parents should not be able to do this to a child, if the child is in a life threatening position and they completely refuse reasonable treatment then someone should step in however the autonomy of the family and its dignity is of prime importance so any intervention must be cautious and restrained and it must not be allowed to compromise this autonomy and dignity any more than the absolute minimum needed. This should in no way become a precedent for interventions in the families autonomy in almost all other circumstances.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-27-09 at 02:04 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    I'm in favor of separation of Church and State and I'm weary of government coming in to take away children, but religious fanatics like this just make it too easy to give government powers an excuse to be exercised.

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    Re: Mother convicted in prayer-death trial

    This is a long but interesting readJEHOVAH'S WITNESSES WANTED OUR BABY TO DIE!I hope the link works

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