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California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

disneydude said:
Well....if Constitutional rights are subject to a simple majority vote, then it should be on the ballot every year in order to reflect what the will of the majority is.

Views of gay marriage are changing rapidly. The younger generation overwhelmingly approves of gay marriage. It is inevitable.
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If you're 20 and a conservative, you don't have a heart.

If you're 40 and a liberal, you don't have a brain.

Most of that younger generation will mature into conservatives, like most of the 60s liberals did.
 
vauge said:
Silly me, I thought the did the first 3 times. :doh
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"Right" (as in correct) means "the way I want it to be".
Sorta like recounting the ballots in Florida...
 
Laila said:
The same marriage in which divorce rates are sky high? Seems to me the worth of Marriage is dead.
Stopping Gays getting married isn't somehow going to save the 'sanctity' of marriage seeing there is nothing left
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Yeah exactly. I'd love to know what this sanctity thing is that people keep referring to. We live in a culture that makes a complete mockery of marriage with reality shows, drive thru marriages, the ease of divorce, etc. All of that is okay, but letting homosexuals get married is just too far apparently. :roll:
 
disneydude said:
Who is trying to force their views on who?

No one on the pro-gay marriage side is saying YOU have to have a gay marriage or that you don't have a right to your own personal views.
The same cannot be said for the anti-gay marriage crowd.
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Another trite yet absurd desperate argument; but alas, avoiding the fallacy of the gay marriage argument appears to be the forte' of those who would also hysterically claim that it somehow devalues them as a class of citizen.

It's absurd and emotional hysterics, but this is what one can expect from gay activists who for no reason OTHER than shoving their views in others faces, wishes to make this into a BIG issue that never existed or occurred to anyone before NUMEROUS attempts to re-define it using the courts occurred.

Now after being beat countless times at the ballot, they are still not through attempting to SHOVE their views in the faces of many who do not agree with their desperate hysterics, they will once more attempt again and again until they finally wear down their opponents and get their way.

Why would the opponents of gay marriage get worn down you may ask? Because essentially it is not a HUGE issue to them except for the fact that when given the CHOICE, they CHOOSE the correct definition of what marriage is and not the emotional hysterical argument that it is about a Constitutional right.
 
Erod said:
If you're 20 and a conservative, you don't have a heart.

If you're 40 and a liberal, you don't have a brain.

Most of that younger generation will mature into conservatives, like most of the 60s liberals did.
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cute saying....but it ain't gonna happen here. Even the older generation is coming around on this issue.
 
dclxvinoise said:
Yeah exactly. I'd love to know what this sanctity thing is that people keep referring to. We live in a culture that makes a complete mockery of marriage with reality shows, drive thru marriages, the ease of divorce, etc. All of that is okay, but letting homosexuals get married is just too far apparently. :roll:
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Nobody gets married anymore, the law in UK has actually legislated those who are living together for a extended amount of time have the rights of a married couple.

Gay marriage is in many European countries. Hasn't made no impact on marriage at all.
 
Laila said:
The same marriage in which divorce rates are sky high? Seems to me the worth of Marriage is dead.
Stopping Gays getting married isn't somehow going to save the 'sanctity' of marriage seeing there is nothing left
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Marriage is based in religious spirituality and traditional values of raising children.

Those that truly enter marriage with that in mind have a very low divorce rate. Those that marry to "cement their love for eternity" without a sense of spiritual and parental commitment, tend to divorce at a very high rate.
 
winston53660 said:
Marriage is a right according to the SCOTUS.
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If that were indeed the case - what would happen to people that want to get married if all of the state laws to that effect were repealed?
 
Truth Detector said:
Another trite yet absurd desperate argument; but alas, avoiding the fallacy of the gay marriage argument appears to be the forte' of those who would also hysterically claim that it somehow devalues them as a class of citizen.

It's absurd and emotional hysterics, but this is what one can expect from gay activists who for no reason OTHER than shoving their views in others faces, wishes to make this into a BIG issue that never existed or occurred to anyone before NUMEROUS attempts to re-define it using the courts occurred.

Now after being beat countless times at the ballot, they are still not through attempting to SHOVE their views in the faces of many who do not agree with their desperate hysterics, they will once more attempt again and again until they finally wear down their opponents and get their way.

Why would the opponents of gay marriage get worn down you may ask? Because essentially it is not a HUGE issue to them except for the fact that when given the CHOICE, they CHOOSE the correct definition of what marriage is and not the emotional hysterical argument that it is about a Constitutional right.
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People who thought that blacks were second class citizens also thought people were attempting to SHOVE their views in their faces.....

so what's you point?
 
Erod said:
Marriage is based in religious spirituality and traditional values of raising children.

Those that truly enter marriage with that in mind have a very low divorce rate. Those that marry to "cement their love for eternity" without a sense of spiritual and parental commitment, tend to divorce at a very high rate.
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Do you have some statistics proving this assertion? Because I'd really be interested in seeing them.
 
Erod said:
Marriage is based in religious spirituality and traditional values of raising children.

Those that truly enter marriage with that in mind have a very low divorce rate. Those that marry to "cement their love for eternity" without a sense of spiritual and parental commitment, tend to divorce at a very high rate.
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If the spirtuality of your marriage is dependent on whether gays have the same rights as you ... It says something about that persons marriage imo ..
 
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disneydude said:
Riiiight....because there are no gays that can provide a family environment...and every heterosexual home is a loving and nuturing one. :roll:
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That is not the argument; the argument is that it is PROVEN that the BEST environment for raising a child is when there is a MOM and a DAD and particularly when they are the ones who brought the child into the world in the first place and are in a stable relationship.

The notion that tearing down the basic structure of human society as being a GOOD idea can only be expressed by a desperate minority who does not concern itself with what may be a healthy environment for a child and would prefer to demagogue the issue with emotional hysterics.

Would an orphan raised in a gay household with a dedicated devoted same sex couple be better off than in an orphanage or foster home; without a doubt. But that is not the debate.
 
Laila said:
Nobody gets married anymore, the law in UK has actually legislated those who are living together for a extended amount of time have the rights of a married couple.

Gay marriage is in many European countries. Hasn't made no impact on marriage at all.
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Europe is a shadow of its former self. What happened to once-great England. It's being overrun from within by people who seek to destroy it, and the rich traditions and sophistications are no more. I wish the UK would find another Churchill or Thatcher.

I fear that is starting to happen here, too.
 
Laila said:
The same marriage in which divorce rates are sky high? Seems to me the worth of Marriage is dead.
Stopping Gays getting married isn't somehow going to save the 'sanctity' of marriage seeing there is nothing left
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That's one of the things that always surprised me; how ****ing stupid do straight people think I am when they look at me with a straight face and tell me that butt sex is going to ruin marriage whereas 50% divorces and Brittainy Spears' 20 something hour marriage doesn't?
 
Erod said:
Europe is a shadow of its former self. What happened to once-great England. It's being overrun from within by people who seek to destroy it, and the rich traditions and sophistications are no more. I wish the UK would find another Churchill or Thatcher.

I fear that is starting to happen here, too.
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You do realize that we have the same thing here too right? Its called Common Law marriage.
 
jallman said:
That's one of the things that always surprised me; how ****ing stupid do straight people think I am when they look at me with a straight face and tell me that butt sex is going to ruin marriage whereas 50% divorces and Brittainy Spears' 20 something hour marriage doesn't?
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It would make more sense, if straight men were working diligently to repress your ability to marry, because we simply were trying to protect you from making a huge mistake.

I might go make a sign and picket at an anti-gay marriage rally. It will read

"Honestly, you guys don't want this ****." :2razz:
 
dclxvinoise said:
So a family with two DADS or two MOMS is somehow incapable of providing the same love and care that a family including a MOM and DAD would? Is that what you are implying?
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Your desperate absurdities notwithstanding, I am implying what NUMEROUS and countless studies have shown to be the case; the best environment for raising healthy children is one where the PARENTS, that would be a mommy and a daddy for those of you who live in San Fran, of the children raise and nurture them in a stable healthy environment.

Yes this is the ideal, but the notion that we should continue breaking down the basic structure of society by attempting to re-define what a family unit is can only be professed in a vacuum of ignorance and demagoguery.

A healthy society cannot exist if the basic structure of that society, a family consisting of the two parents who created the child in the first place, is broken down to the lowest narcissistic common denominator.
 
Erod said:
Europe is a shadow of its former self. What happened to once-great England. It's being overrun from within by people who seek to destroy it, and the rich traditions and sophistications are no more. I wish the UK would find another Churchill or Thatcher.

I fear that is starting to happen here, too.
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LOL

England is still great, just not as backward as US [No offence US]
The argument that marriage is ruined if Gays can get married is ridiculous and illogical and when it was debated in Commons, was chucked out in a heartbeat.
When the Civil Partnership Act was created, they made it a completely secular process just like its opposite-sex civil marriage counterpart. The partnership becomes valid the moment both parties sign the registration document rather than by a minister declaring "I now pronounce you husband and wife". Every other legal right that is afforded to a married couple is given to civil partners."

Lets say Thatcher is elected [which would not happen seeing she is hated], what do you expect she will do? Stop Gay marriage? That would require a vote and she would lose.
Btw, congratulate us. We got our first Gay Scottish Minister :2wave:
 
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WI Crippler said:
It would make more sense, if straight men were working diligently to repress your ability to marry, because we simply were trying to protect you from making a huge mistake.

I might go make a sign and picket at an anti-gay marriage rally. It will read

"Honestly, you guys don't want this ****." :2razz:
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This why many men in the US volunteer for torture every year, except its disguised as marriage.
 
Erod said:
Marriage is based in religious spirituality and traditional values of raising children.
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What about Church going gay couples who have children from previous hetero marriages before they came out? They are spiritual/Presbyterian and are following the tradition of raising kids. Should they be allowed to marry supposing it was legal?

I know a lesbian couple who are this example.
 
jallman said:
That would be my only real issue with civil unions. It would have to be treated EXACTLY the same as marriage. I mean, take the marriage contract and strike out the word marriage and replace it with "civil union" but leave every other word intact.
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No one has an issue with this. This is exactly what must happen; the State gets out of the business of marriage.

In Europe this is how things work; you go to the State for your "civil union" or license, and the church to get married.
 
jallman said:
That's one of the things that always surprised me; how ****ing stupid do straight people think I am when they look at me with a straight face and tell me that butt sex is going to ruin marriage whereas 50% divorces and Brittainy Spears' 20 something hour marriage doesn't?
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Exactly.
But hey, some people like to cling to their traditions and out of date ideas. I say let them, just go around it. Make civil unions basically marriage in everything but name.
 
Erod said:
Marriage is based in religious spirituality and traditional values of raising children.

Those that truly enter marriage with that in mind have a very low divorce rate. Those that marry to "cement their love for eternity" without a sense of spiritual and parental commitment, tend to divorce at a very high rate.
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US Divorce Rates For Various Faith Groups

Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

Hmm...that kind of destroys your theory a bit.
 
Truth Detector said:
Your desperate absurdities notwithstanding, I am implying what NUMEROUS and countless studies have shown to be the case; the best environment for raising healthy children is one where the PARENTS, that would be a mommy and a daddy for those of you who live in San Fran, of the children raise and nurture them in a stable healthy environment.

Yes this is the ideal, but the notion that we should continue breaking down the basic structure of society by attempting to re-define what a family unit is can only be professed in a vacuum of ignorance and demagoguery.

A healthy society cannot exist if the basic structure of that society, a family consisting of the two parents who created the child in the first place, is broken down to the lowest narcissistic common denominator.
Click to expand...

If these studies are so numerous then I'm sure you wouldn't mind providing some to back up your claims.
 
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