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California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

disneydude said:
If its put back on the ballot and it passes, isn't that the "will of the people"?
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You're trying to apply someone else's argument to me as though I'm some cookie-cutter Conservative.
 
disneydude said:
Then, one April day we heard it
Thunder rumbling
One man speaking
Thousands singing ..
Someday we'll be free
I promise you, we'll be free
If not tomorrow
Then the day after that
And the candles in our hands
Will illuminate this land
If not tomorrow
Then the day after that
And the world that gives us pain
That fills our lives with fear
On the day after that
Will disappear
And the war we've fought to win
I promise you, we will win
If not tomorrow
Then the day after that
Or the day after that
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Wow, bro if you think marriage is about being free....man you don't understand the issue at all.
 
Jerry said:
They just did.
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And I guess we'll be getting it right, also, in 2010.

Jerry, this is not the right decision...devaluing a class of citizens based on the moral disapproval of their private lives is so far from a conservative principle I am surprised you aren't gnashing your teeth over it.
 
disneydude said:
Well....if Constitutional rights are subject to a simple majority vote, then it should be on the ballot every year in order to reflect what the will of the majority is.

Views of gay marriage are changing rapidly. The younger generation overwhelmingly approves of gay marriage. It is inevitable.
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There is no constitutional right specifically to gay marriage. The only court cases heard by the Supreme Court that signifies a constitutional right to marriage refers to that of a traditional male and female marriage. The Supreme Court has turned down any case thus far to my knowledge dealing with same sex marriage. As such, until its either:

1) In the constitution
2) Decided so by the Supreme Court

Same Sex Marriage is not a constitutional right. It is your opinion that it is, but it is not a fact it is. The only FACT is that marriage as defined between a man and a woman is a constitutional fact. This remains the case until such time as one of the above two things happen. Until then, its just your OPINION that it is a constitutional right.
 
It's only a matter of time before the militant homosexuals go on a rampage which is not that unusual for leftists. Burn a few Mormon churches perhaps. Things like that.
 
Zyphlin said:
There is no constitutional right specifically to gay marriage. The only court cases heard by the Supreme Court that signifies a constitutional right to marriage refers to that of a traditional male and female marriage. The Supreme Court has turned down any case thus far to my knowledge dealing with same sex marriage. As such, until its either:

1) In the constitution
2) Decided so by the Supreme Court

Same Sex Marriage is not a constitutional right. It is your opinion that it is, but it is not a fact it is. The only FACT is that marriage as defined between a man and a woman is a constitutional fact. This remains the case until such time as one of the above two things happen. Until then, its just your OPINION that it is a constitutional right.
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Sorry Zyph....but that is exactly what Prop 8 was about. The California Supreme Court specifically ruled that bans on gay marriage violated the California Constitution, thus recognizing it as a Constitutional right.
Prop 8 was a constitutional amendment in response to that. Unfortunately, in California, Constitutional Amendments do not require a 2/3's majority and require only a simple 50%+1 vote. Thus, in California, Constitutional rights can be eliminated by a simple majority.
 
DamnYankee said:
It's only a matter of time before the militant homosexuals go on a rampage which is not that unusual for leftists. Burn a few Mormon churches perhaps. Things like that.
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When did that happen ever?
 
DamnYankee said:
It's only a matter of time before the militant homosexuals go on a rampage which is not that unusual for leftists. Burn a few Mormon churches perhaps. Things like that.
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and its only a matter of time before churches start spreading their lies and deceit in order to scare the brainless that gay marriage will lead to the complete collapse of heterosexual life.
 
Zyphlin said:
There is no constitutional right specifically to gay marriage. The only court cases heard by the Supreme Court that signifies a constitutional right to marriage refers to that of a traditional male and female marriage. The Supreme Court has turned down any case thus far to my knowledge dealing with same sex marriage. As such, until its either:

1) In the constitution
2) Decided so by the Supreme Court

Same Sex Marriage is not a constitutional right. It is your opinion that it is, but it is not a fact it is. The only FACT is that marriage as defined between a man and a woman is a constitutional fact. This remains the case until such time as one of the above two things happen. Until then, its just your OPINION that it is a constitutional right.
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I agree with all that however I think the unconstitutionality comes in when one group is treated with a different standard than another. That goes against equal protection and equal rights.

Basically the government is handing goodies to one group of people while simultaneously devaluing another.
 
DamnYankee said:
It's only a matter of time before the militant homosexuals go on a rampage which is not that unusual for leftists. Burn a few Mormon churches perhaps. Things like that.
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Put. The Crack Pipe. Down.
 
jallman said:
And I guess we'll be getting it right, also, in 2010.

Jerry, this is not the right decision...devaluing a class of citizens based on the moral disapproval of their private lives is so far from a conservative principle I am surprised you aren't gnashing your teeth over it.
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how is it devalueing a class of citizens? It wasn't a ballot banning gays, it was a ballot banning homosexual "unions". Marriages are an action, not a type of people. A lot of Heterosexuals go through life never marrying, so it has nothing to do with "class". You want to have sex in your private bedrooms, go ahead, there is no law in the books banning that and no one really cares. Want to live together like a married couple? You can do that to? Visitation rights when one is ill, hell yea! Nothing to do with being gay, everyhting to do with your "union" being classified as a marriage by society.
 
disneydude said:
Sorry Zyph....but that is exactly what Prop 8 was about. The California Supreme Court specifically ruled that bans on gay marriage violated the California Constitution, thus recognizing it as a Constitutional right.
Prop 8 was a constitutional amendment in response to that. Unfortunately, in California, Constitutional Amendments do not require a 2/3's majority and require only a simple 50%+1 vote. Thus, in California, Constitutional rights can be eliminated by a simple majority.
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Well, I do think that the CA Supreme Court just ruled against its own relevance today...
 
disneydude said:
and its only a matter of time before churches start spreading their lies and deceit in order to scare the brainless that gay marriage will lead to the complete collapse of heterosexual life.
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kinda like how civil rights spread their lies and deciet? "Gay marriage is an inalienable right!". That's the biggest lie in the books right now.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
how is it devalueing a class of citizens? It wasn't a ballot banning gays, it was a ballot banning homosexual "unions". Marriages are an action, not a type of people. A lot of Heterosexuals go through life never marrying, so it has nothing to do with "class". You want to have sex in your private bedrooms, go ahead, there is no law in the books banning that and no one really cares. Want to live together like a married couple? You can do that to? Visitation rights when one is ill, hell yea! Nothing to do with being gay, everyhting to do with your "union" being classified as a marriage by society.
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When the government hands goodies to one class of people but withholds them from another, then a double standard is created. One or the other is devalued.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
kinda like how civil rights spread their lies and deciet? "Gay marriage is an inalienable right!". That's the biggest lie in the books right now.
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You've got the issue all wrong. It is equal protection that is the " inalienable right" :doh
 
I just have a question to all the liberals out there, I remember some liberals spouting off back about gay marriage, and abortion, and other issues like that, and they always bring up arguments like "The courts said this! and the courts said that!" and "How are your opinions any more correct than the opinions of a majority of X amount of judges?", I have to ask you all...how is your opinions here in this thread more correct than the opinions of the CA state supreme court? :2wave:
 
disneydude said:
You've got the issue all wrong. It is equal protection that is the " inalienable right" :doh
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If a gay guy wants to marry a gay woman(or any woman for that matter), they will have equal protection under the law. :2wave:

thanks for playing!
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I just have a question to all the liberals out there, I remember some liberals spouting off back about gay marriage, and abortion, and other issues like that, and they always bring up arguments like "The courts said this! and the courts said that!" and "How are your opinions any more correct than the opinions of a majority of X amount of judges?", I have to ask you all...how is your opinions here in this thread more correct than the opinions of the CA state supreme court? :2wave:
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You gonna **** that straw man you just built or are you just happy blowing it?
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I just have a question to all the liberals out there, I remember some liberals spouting off back about gay marriage, and abortion, and other issues like that, and they always bring up arguments like "The courts said this! and the courts said that!" and "How are your opinions any more correct than the opinions of a majority of X amount of judges?", I have to ask you all...how is your opinions here in this thread more correct than the opinions of the CA state supreme court? :2wave:
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I have no issue with the California Supreme Court. I think that under current California law they made the right decision here. It doesn't mean that I agree that Constitutional rights should be subject to a 50%+1 simple majority vote. That's what I take issue with. I think prop 8 sets a very scary precedent.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
If a gay guy wants to marry a gay woman(or any woman for that matter), they will have equal protection under the law. :2wave:

thanks for playing!
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Sorry DW....Courts have never addressed equal protection in such a ridiculous simple fashion. Nice try though.
 
jallman said:
You gonna **** that straw man you just built or are you just happy blowing it?
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It was meant specifically for those(OKgrannie, to name one) who always use the supreme court as if it's some "flawless entity" where all opinions stem from and are all correct. not necessarily you.
 
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