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Thread: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

  1. #451
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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    It's not equal.
    For all intensive purposes couple relationships in California are Equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    One other important thing. A domestic partnership is not transferrable to many other nations, or even other States, in the way that a marriage would be. Marriage licensing is "stronger" for this reason, or even civil unions which, as of now, are outlawed for gays.
    A "marriage" of two people of the same sex is also not transferable to other states or even acknowledged by our own federal government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Also, the term "marriage" is significant to a lot of people, such as gays who are religious. They should have the ability to get married in the church of their faith if that church is willing to perform the ceremony. As it stands, they cannot do that because the law makes the decision for all churches. IMO this also steps upon the religious freedoms of churches and their communities who are in favor of same-sex marriage, and there are many.
    Yes they can. Any church can perform a marriage or other uniting ceremony for it's members without the consent of the government. Now it may not be acknowledged by the government but it's not illegal or criminal. IMO government acknowledging marriage at all steps on the religious freedom of everyone.

    The bottom line is that Prop 8 is just smoke, mirrors and political fodder. It makes no difference in privileges granted to the couples involved whether Prop 8 exists or not.
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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    But again, from a legal standpoint there is no inequality.
    This is patently untrue. A certain relationship (a heterosexual marriage) amongst American citizens affords them legal and financial benefits not afforded to others. Any persons engaging in a relationship that does not meet the criteria set forth by "marriage" may not partake in these legal and financial benefits, thus there is indeed a legal inequality inherent to heterosexual marriage.

    However, the point is that NO relationship should be afforded these types of restricted benefits, thus the idea that gay marriage is somehow a right is just as ludicrous as me saying heterosexual marriage is a right. No, you do not have the right to get special benefits and recognition from the government, gay or straight.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That was so far from the point....
    Just re-read your post. My first reading left me thinking it was just another one of those old "blame whitey for keeping the black gay man down" routines.

    I think I may have misintrepreted your comment. Perhaps I should have known more history on the "back-and-forth" dialog on this thread to properly intrepret what you were saying. My bad. All apologies.

    Did you mean to say that in your efforts to see both sides of the issue and walk the center line, that the anti-gm people still treat you like crap no matter what?

    Is that a better intrepetation? If not, please explain in simpler terms for those of us over here on the short bus.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This is patently untrue. A certain relationship (a heterosexual marriage) amongst American citizens affords them legal and financial benefits not afforded to others.
    However homosexuals, at least consenting, adult ones, have equal legal ability to engage in these relationships.

    What you mean is they don't have the ability to marry a consenting, adult of the sex they are attracted to. That is a far narrower definition than simply saying they don't have "equal rights". Generalised equality often doesn't isn't easily useful when it comes to specifics.

    However, the point is that NO relationship should be afforded these types of restricted benefits, thus the idea that gay marriage is somehow a right is just as ludicrous as me saying heterosexual marriage is a right. No, you do not have the right to get special benefits and recognition from the government, gay or straight.
    Actually a lot of the rights can be claimed by just having the state acknowledge that in some areas a marriage(of any kind.) is an irreducible unit. This is not necessarily conveying any benefits and is arguably less interventionist as the state recognises a social unit and does not try and split it apart, at least for the purposes of its contact with it, into atoms the individuals that make up this social unit.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Which, of course, the gay marriage debate is not even about. But you knew that already.
    Erm, yeah, it is

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    A "marriage" of two people of the same sex is also not transferable to other states or even acknowledged by our own federal government.
    Wait...what? Transferable? I was married in CA 9 years ago and I've never had to "transfer" my marriage.

    Other states are required under federal law to recognize Domestic Partnership, but in no way does that mean anything is ever "transferred"....I don't even know what you mean by that. As a 7-year resident of SD, my marriage license is under the authority of Alameda County, CA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Yes they can. Any church can perform a marriage or other uniting ceremony for it's members without the consent of the government. Now it may not be acknowledged by the government but it's not illegal or criminal. IMO government acknowledging marriage at all steps on the religious freedom of everyone.

    The bottom line is that Prop 8 is just smoke, mirrors and political fodder. It makes no difference in privileges granted to the couples involved whether Prop 8 exists or not.
    Gays can get a Domestic Partnership license, go down to the church and have a ceremony and call it "marriage". They can even call each other 'husband' or 'wife'.

    There's nothing left to fight for in the courts.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-29-09 at 11:36 AM.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Wait...what? Transferable? I was married in CA 9 years ago and I've never had to "transfer" my marriage...wtf are you talking about?


    The poster was talking about DOMA.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The poster was talking about DOMA.
    I read the posts and I still don't understand.

    A marriage license is not like a driver's license where you have to have it transferred to your resident state within a given grace period of becoming a resident.

    To reverse the analogy, it's like getting a CA driver's license and that license being good all over the country.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-29-09 at 11:39 AM.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I read the posts and I still don't understand.

    A marriage license is not like a driver's license where you have to have it transferred to your resident state within a given grace period of becoming a resident.

    To reverse the analogy, it's like getting a CA driver's license and that license being good all over the country.
    Maybe the poster worded it badly. A heterosexual marriage performed in CA will be recognized in any other state via the Full Faith and Credit clause in the US Constitution. The same can not be said of gay marriages because of the DOMA. BTW one can drive in any other state on a CA drivers license. One needs to change it when they claim residency in another state.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Maybe the poster worded it badly.
    That demonstrates ignorance of the issue A typo is one thing, but this shows a fundamental lack of knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    A heterosexual marriage performed in CA will be recognized in any other state via the Full Faith and Credit clause in the US Constitution. The same can not be said of gay marriages because of the DOMA.
    Sure, I agree with that, but Domestic Partnerships are recognized in every other state, so there's no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    BTW one can drive in any other state on a CA drivers license. One needs to change it when they claim residency in another state.
    I thought I said that

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