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Thread: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If a state declares that men are allowed to drive cars, but women are not, it would rightly be struck down as discrimination.

    If a state declares that men are allowed to buy houses, but women are not, it would rightly be struck down as discrimination.

    If a state declares that men are allowed to marry women, but women are not, why would the same standard not apply?
    The state is allowed to treat men and women differently in regards to a wide variety of matters. You do not have a right to use a woman's bathroom in a public facility. Women are not allowed to go topless on all beaches, while men are. There is not now, nor has there ever been any federal mandate that women and men are to always be treated the same, or have the same rights.

    In the case of marriage all peoples are allowed the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    As I keep saying, the fight is sociological, not legal.
    Then you won't mind if gay couples get all the same legal rights and benefits as married hetero couples. Problems solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    This is not the right place to fight for social acceptance since that is not something a court can grant.
    They are fighting to legislate equal rights. You can't legislate social acceptance in any way I'm aware of so that argument is a non sequitur.
    Last edited by scourge99; 05-27-09 at 01:34 AM.
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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The government CAN grant them equality under the law. Social acceptance is completely different. It is the gay marriage OPPONENTS who are attempting to equate the two.
    The government can through judicial activism or the finding of rights that aren't in the constitution but I'd prefer it be done via the swaying of public opinion so that they want to amend their constitution.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    The state is allowed to treat men and women differently in regards to a wide variety of matters. You do not have a right to use a woman's bathroom in a public facility. Women are not allowed to go topless on all beaches, while men are. There is not now, nor has there ever been any federal mandate that women and men are to always be treated the same, or have the same rights.

    In the case of marriage all peoples are allowed the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.
    Yet not all peoples are allowed to name the person of their choice as "irreplaceable" in the eyes of the law. Therein lies the issue. It most certainly is an issue of equality.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The government CAN grant them equality under the law.
    They have it.

    Right now, this very instant, they have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Social acceptance is completely different. It is the gay marriage OPPONENTS who are attempting to equate the two.
    Then I stand out among them as I keep separating the two on this thread.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    How is this post any different that anti-gm bringing up marrying animals or incest or polygamy....
    Are those laws applied unequally from one group or individual to another? If so, then I completely agree. If men are legally allowed to marry horses in your state, then women should be granted the same right.
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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Then you won't mind if gay couples get all the same legal rights and benefits as married hetero couples. Problems solved.
    Right, exactly, and gays have all of that right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    They are fighting to legislate equal rights.
    They already have it.

    They won.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    You can't legislate social acceptance in any way I'm aware of so that argument is a non sequitur.
    Exactly my point.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Are those laws applied unequally from one group or individual to another?
    Yeah: just as driving is not a right, animals can't consent.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yet not all peoples are allowed to name the person of their choice as "irreplaceable" in the eyes of the law. Therein lies the issue. It most certainly is an issue of equality.
    Your own case-law contradicts this.

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    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    The state is allowed to treat men and women differently in regards to a wide variety of matters. You do not have a right to use a woman's bathroom in a public facility.
    I'm not sure there are any laws against doing so, in most places. It's just frowned upon. Even if there are, I doubt they're enforced.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Women are not allowed to go topless on all beaches, while men are.
    Yep, that would be unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    There is not now, nor has there ever been any federal mandate that women and men are to always be treated the same, or have the same rights.
    The 14th amendment grants equal protection under the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    In the case of marriage all peoples are allowed the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.
    And blacks and whites were each allowed to marry a member of their own race. Perfectly constitutional, right?
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