Page 31 of 52 FirstFirst ... 21293031323341 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 310 of 518

Thread: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

  1. #301
    Student Goldwaters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Liberal Northern California
    Last Seen
    03-08-10 @ 04:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    266

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    62% of those without a college degree voted yes.
    That's not surprising at all. In fact, John McCain's strongest demographic in the election was uneducated white males over 50.
    Each one of the founding fathers was a special interest group.

  2. #302
    User Ninja Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    07-22-09 @ 08:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    63

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by FallingPianos View Post
    unless you want to marry him.
    Not true, no one is stopping you from being married. You can go to a church that marries gays, go on a honeymoon, call yourself married, etc.

  3. #303
    User Ninja Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    07-22-09 @ 08:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    63

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What you imagine "liberals" believe about Obama's margin of victory is irrelevant to the subject at hand.
    No it isn't. Significant isn't defined based upon your convenience and whether or not you like the position.

  4. #304
    Jedi Master
    Captain America's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,647

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    This one is headed to the SCOTUS.
    A lil' legislating from the bench, huh boys?

    I thought only the liberals approved of that kinda thing.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  5. #305
    Hung like Einstein
    Singularity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    1,058

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Jerry;

    I did some checking to see if, in fact, civil unions conferred the exact same benefits accorded to married couples. Furthermore, I wanted to see if the California Domestic Partner Rights and Responsibilities Act of 2003 was essentially the same thing as marriage. I found the following differences:

    1. Same-sex couples are still not considered "married" and cannot simply walk down the aisle and say "I do" to be legally married.

    2. Same-sex couples cannot file joint state or federal income taxes.

    3. State employees are not entitled the same benefits under the state's long-term care benefits package. Married partners of state employees are eligible for the CalPERS (California Public Employees' Retirement System) long-term care insurance plan, domestic partners are not.

    4. There is, at least according to one appellate ruling, no equivalent of the Putative Spouse Doctrine for domestic partnerships.

    5. Domestic partnerships do not have the right to sponsor a partner for immigration purposes.

    6. Unlike marriage, if you or your partner are injured in another state, you may not be allowed hospital visitation or the right to make emergency medical decisions on behalf of your partner simply because you are in a domestic partnership.

    7. The lack of any equivalent to California's "confidential marriage" institution.


    Sources (http://www.legalzoom.com/legal-artic...ship-law.html; Robin Estes: Family Law: Domestic Partner Law ).

    In addition, I am curious about the supposed problems with durable power of attorney, wills, and medical power of attorney. From what I understand, having this done would cost thousands of dollars in legal fees. A simple marriage license, which is only a few hundred bucks at the most from what I understand, would cover all the same rights and benefits. And can't these be challenged in court? California may view a domestic partnership equally when it comes to a will, but legal spouses almost always have more legal power than any other family member in such a case, so what if this is done outside of California? It would appear that the family could contest a lot more easily, as the domestic partnership isn't recognized by every other state.

    Those would be my concerns. Thoughts?

  6. #306
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Pig View Post
    No it isn't. Significant isn't defined based upon your convenience and whether or not you like the position.
    A 4-point margin of victory is not significant regardless of the position. Especially when the margin on the issue at hand is closing at more than 2% per year. In 2010, it should be virtually a tie in California. And even if legalizing gay marriage fails then, it's almost certain to pass in 2012.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  7. #307
    Student SpotsCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brandon, Mississippi
    Last Seen
    09-08-10 @ 06:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    275

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    A 4-point margin of victory is not significant regardless of the position. Especially when the margin on the issue at hand is closing at more than 2% per year. In 2010, it should be virtually a tie in California. And even if legalizing gay marriage fails then, it's almost certain to pass in 2012.
    I disagree.

    I live in a county in Mississippi that is "dry" - no liquor sales allowed.

    In 2002 a measure was on the ballot to allow liquor sales and liquor by the drink - it failed by about 3% The pro-liquor forces took this as a sign that they were close, and launched a campaign to "educate" the electorate about the benefits of liquor sales - the jobs, tax revenues, etc... - and in 2004 the measure lost by a larger margin, almost 6% as I recall. They tried again in 2006, and again lost by a still larger margin, about 11-12%.

    What was happening is a voter backlash against having to vote on the same issue again, and again, and again. Plus, as the pro-liquor forces stepped up their advertising and rhetoric, the anti-liquor forces did the same.

    Now, for the 2010 election, there is a measure to strip liquor sales authority from the province of the county, and turn it over to the individual cities to decide on a city-by-city basis whether or not they want to allow liquor sales. One local city - which is basically nothing more than shopping malls and restaurants like Applebees, Chili's, TGIFriday's, etc... - stands to benefit from this.

    There's no doubt in my mind that sooner or later same-sex marriage will be legal in California, it's just going to be a long, hard, difficult and bitter fight.
    SpotsCat is a ® trademark of SpotsCat Intergalactic Enterprises LLC, All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use of the exceptionally witty material contained herein shall be prostituted to the fullest extent. Trespassers will be shot.

  8. #308
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    1. Same-sex couples are still not considered "married"
    That's the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    and cannot simply walk down the aisle and say "I do" to be legally married.
    Neither can heteros.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    2. Same-sex couples cannot file joint state or federal income taxes.
    Your source quotes the same law I did (much to my credit), so where, exactly, does that law say anything about joint-filling specifically?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    3. State employees are not entitled the same benefits under the state's long-term care benefits package. Married partners of state employees are eligible for the CalPERS (California Public Employees' Retirement System) long-term care insurance plan, domestic partners are not.
    Please link to the policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    4. There is, at least according to one appellate ruling, no equivalent of the Putative Spouse Doctrine for domestic partnerships.
    Putative Spouse Doctrine Applies to Domestic Partners—C.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    5. Domestic partnerships do not have the right to sponsor a partner for immigration purposes.
    This is the result of the DOMA, and as such is a Federal Issue. We're talking about CA state law and CA state law only. If this is a loophole you would like closed, please write your local CA Representative as CA is a boarder state and can make it's own rules in this regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    6. Unlike marriage, if you or your partner are injured in another state, you may not be allowed hospital visitation or the right to make emergency medical decisions on behalf of your partner simply because you are in a domestic partnership.
    the right to make medical decisions if your partner becomes incapacitated;

    [.....]

    Will our domestic partnership be valid outside of California?
    Yes. Even if you don’t live in California, you and your partner will be domestic partners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    7. The lack of any equivalent to California's "confidential marriage" institution.
    C O N F I D E N T I A L COUNTY OF SANTA CRUZ: AFFIDAVIT OF DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP 1.

    "That Page Does Not Exist"

    Proly a simple URL error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    In addition, I am curious about the supposed problems with durable power of attorney, wills, and medical power of attorney. From what I understand, having this done would cost thousands of dollars in legal fees. A simple marriage license, which is only a few hundred bucks at the most from what I understand, would cover all the same rights and benefits. And can't these be challenged in court? California may view a domestic partnership equally when it comes to a will, but legal spouses almost always have more legal power than any other family member in such a case, so what if this is done outside of California? It would appear that the family could contest a lot more easily, as the domestic partnership isn't recognized by every other state.
    That's a whole lot of worry over nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Thoughts?
    Gays should stop pursuing marriage and abandon Domestic Partnership altogether.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-27-09 at 12:47 AM.

  9. #309
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    How many times do the need to vote on it?
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Until they get it right.
    Until we stop propositions.

    Proposition = one issue, narrow minded, ill-conceived attempts to remove the power from our representatives and place it in the incompetent hands of the ignorant poorly educated voters.

    Now propositions aren't all bad but there is a glaring problem. They can't be overturned except by subsequent propositions. Propositions are therefore out of the hands of our legislatures (I.E. the guys with higher IQ then the average voter.) and will stay on the books until overturned.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  10. #310
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,018

    Re: California Supreme Court Upholds Proposition 8

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    I disagree.

    I live in a county in Mississippi that is "dry" - no liquor sales allowed.

    In 2002 a measure was on the ballot to allow liquor sales and liquor by the drink - it failed by about 3% The pro-liquor forces took this as a sign that they were close, and launched a campaign to "educate" the electorate about the benefits of liquor sales - the jobs, tax revenues, etc... - and in 2004 the measure lost by a larger margin, almost 6% as I recall. They tried again in 2006, and again lost by a still larger margin, about 11-12%.

    What was happening is a voter backlash against having to vote on the same issue again, and again, and again. Plus, as the pro-liquor forces stepped up their advertising and rhetoric, the anti-liquor forces did the same.

    Now, for the 2010 election, there is a measure to strip liquor sales authority from the province of the county, and turn it over to the individual cities to decide on a city-by-city basis whether or not they want to allow liquor sales. One local city - which is basically nothing more than shopping malls and restaurants like Applebees, Chili's, TGIFriday's, etc... - stands to benefit from this.

    There's no doubt in my mind that sooner or later same-sex marriage will be legal in California, it's just going to be a long, hard, difficult and bitter fight.
    Mississippi isn't California. Our history of civil rights and freedoms is a few hundred light years ahead of yours. The two are NOT comparable. While Californians were making mulatos mayors of their biggest cities. Mississippi still had them as house niggers. While we were a free state you guys were fighting for the right to keep slaves. While we were sending the first black representative to Congress blacks in Mississippi were fighting to use the same facilities as whites. As I said. Disagreeing with Jallman about a matter concerning California, with a reference to Mississippi is either pretty dishonest or pretty ignorant of the histories of BOTH states.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-27-09 at 12:48 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

Page 31 of 52 FirstFirst ... 21293031323341 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •