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Thread: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxientius View Post
    So you now agree with me and lerx?
    Yes I do. My original comment was assuming a full invasion and occupation. My original thought was it would have to appear as retaliation, but I agree now that it would not matter with occupation.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    BUT
    If the US did occupy, what would be the consquences?

    Notice i kept the debate alive here though if we agree i shall allow it to die.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxientius View Post
    BUT
    If the US did occupy, what would be the consquences?

    Notice i kept the debate alive here though if we agree i shall allow it to die.
    I think the very first result would be that Russia and China would verbally condemn and threaten the U.S., followed by refusing us air space and blocking water-ways for U.S. Navy, then go to the UN to swing the rest of the world, or at least as much as possible against the United States. Following that each would attempt to negotiate that a Sino-Soviet unit protect and maintain the oil fields as good faith that the U.S. was not indeed making a hegomonic move. If this were to fail, then I believe each would attempt economic sanctions and possibly military intervention as a last resort. Russia would then immediately move on former Soviet Nations that have Western democracies, and China would attack Taiwan and retake the island as retribution.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I think the very first result would be that Russia and China would verbally condemn and threaten the U.S., followed by refusing us air space and blocking water-ways for U.S. Navy, then go to the UN to swing the rest of the world, or at least as much as possible against the United States. Following that each would attempt to negotiate that a Sino-Soviet unit protect and maintain the oil fields as good faith that the U.S. was not indeed making a hegomonic move. If this were to fail, then I believe each would attempt economic sanctions and possibly military intervention as a last resort. Russia would then immediately move on former Soviet Nations that have Western democracies, and China would attack Taiwan and retake the island as retribution.
    With ya til you got to the bold at which point i think one of two things happened:

    1) Your little brother snuck on and decided to create a cool war scenario

    OR

    2) You smoked a WHOLE LOT of drugs.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxientius View Post
    With ya til you got to the bold at which point i think one of two things happened:

    1) Your little brother snuck on and decided to create a cool war scenario

    OR

    2) You smoked a WHOLE LOT of drugs.
    You do not think that the two nations would attempt to have soldiers in the country to look after their interests? And as we have seen Russia do before, they will strike out at U.S. friendly nations for retribution to U.S. actions. Look at the entire Georgia fiasco.

    The military intervention scheme may be far fetched, as well as the economic sanctions, but remember that both nations realize the economic influence that the U.S. has and both have worked to create economic zones of pooling with ASEAN and ASEAN+3, as well as the Shanghai Corporation Organization, with the sole purpose to diminish the economic as well as military influence that the United States enjoys in the world. Such actions as last resort may very well be taken to show the U.S. it is not the only player. China has more to lose than Russia, as China is holding on to $4.9trillion U.S. debt, but as consumer markets are cultivated in the rest of Asia and elsewhere China could decide to call in those loans and bankrupt the Hegemon.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    You do not think that the two nations would attempt to have soldiers in the country to look after their interests? And as we have seen Russia do before, they will strike out at U.S. friendly nations for retribution to U.S. actions. Look at the entire Georgia fiasco.

    The military intervention scheme may be far fetched, as well as the economic sanctions, but remember that both nations realize the economic influence that the U.S. has and both have worked to create economic zones of pooling with ASEAN and ASEAN+3, as well as the Shanghai Corporation Organization, with the sole purpose to diminish the economic as well as military influence that the United States enjoys in the world. Such actions as last resort may very well be taken to show the U.S. it is not the only player. China has more to lose than Russia, as China is holding on to $4.9trillion U.S. debt, but as consumer markets are cultivated in the rest of Asia and elsewhere China could decide to call in those loans and bankrupt the Hegemon.
    Russia isnt stupid. They know that the world is opposed to Iran gaining a nuclear arsenal. The US would be majorly supported in almost any anti-Iranian action.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxientius View Post
    Russia isnt stupid. They know that the world is opposed to Iran gaining a nuclear arsenal. The US would be majorly supported in almost any anti-Iranian action.
    Yes, but we thought that we would have world support for Iraq and not so much. Negotiations and sanctions, yes we will have it. Invasion and occupation, no.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    That would give us carte blanche to move and secure the straits militarily. They would get one real shot and then we would dismantle their ability to do things like cook with gas, turn on the lights, use a phone, export oil to their customers, cross certain bridges, produce nuclear energy, etc.
    "Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force." -- Jimmy Carter, 23 Jan 80
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    In this case, it's perfectly stupid to be leaving perfectly good American oil in American soil when lunatics are trying to hold us hostage with their own oil.
    Eh. That does not include how oil is priced and sold on the world markets. Just because we drill more here (which we can't do in significant quantities to change the total quantity on the market) does not mean we are not effected by global activities related to oil. The whole oil market scheme is tilted towards Petrodictators. Their actions affect our prices even when the oil we use does not come from them. The only way around this is nationalization of US oil to insulate it from the global market. That's how Iran, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela do it.They insulate their oil from the world prices so that activities in far away lands do not affect how much their people pay.

    As I've said before, we need to leave the entire scheme as the power is clearly in their court.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Iran sends warships to Gulf of Aden - navy

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not quite.

    Think about it. Strait of Hormuz. Place the four large cargo ships in the strait. Scuttle them. Congratulations, You just shutdown all shipments of oil out of the Gulf. Any predictors of what that will do to world oil and gas prices? Iran's navy damage capacity is a peashooter compared to what it can do with four old cargo ships.
    I keep hearing that argument but I just don't buy it. Twenty-four hours. Forty-eight, tops.

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