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Thread: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    I don't think anyone is confused that Republicanism doesn't equal Conservatism. Notice, I didn't say that I'm unsure of Powel being a Republican, I'm just unsure of him truly being "Conservative". Again, not also saying "Liberal", but at the most he's a moderate with leans equally both ways.

    The issue is this move to the middle by the GOP, which I think is less as prevalent as you think in regards to the majority of its base, being found mostly in those closest to the media. While not all Democrats are dyed in the wool liberal, the parties identity and general starting point IS liberal. The Republican Party doesn't need to be ALL dyed in the wool conservatives, but it HAS to have a party identity of staunch Conservatism at its core.

    The reason many people are happy to reject the moderate conservatives to liberal members of the Republican Party right now is that the parties leadership has let it lurch so far to the "middle" now that its disenfranchised and pissed off a great deal of its base and they're sick of it. They feel its time for a purge and that the only way to get back to a conservative starting point is to focus on actual conservatives. Once you relay the foundation, THEN you can start adding on those of a more moderated stance.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I don't think anyone is confused that Republicanism doesn't equal Conservatism. Notice, I didn't say that I'm unsure of Powel being a Republican, I'm just unsure of him truly being "Conservative". Again, not also saying "Liberal", but at the most he's a moderate with leans equally both ways.

    The issue is this move to the middle by the GOP, which I think is less as prevalent as you think in regards to the majority of its base, being found mostly in those closest to the media. While not all Democrats are dyed in the wool liberal, the parties identity and general starting point IS liberal. The Republican Party doesn't need to be ALL dyed in the wool conservatives, but it HAS to have a party identity of staunch Conservatism at its core.

    The reason many people are happy to reject the moderate conservatives to liberal members of the Republican Party right now is that the parties leadership has let it lurch so far to the "middle" now that its disenfranchised and pissed off a great deal of its base and they're sick of it. They feel its time for a purge and that the only way to get back to a conservative starting point is to focus on actual conservatives. Once you relay the foundation, THEN you can start adding on those of a more moderated stance.
    But if it is the strong base that is the most out of tune with the people, ie..the most recent elections, then it would seem logical that if the middle is purged for the base, the party will become less attractive and weaker.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    Colin Powell had a moderate, if not left-wing, Republican in John McCain to support this election, yet he chose to support Barack Obama instead.

    Why?
    Colin Powell's rationale, at the time he made the endorsement, can be found here: Powell endorses Obama for president - Meet the Press, online at MSNBC- msnbc.com

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Perhaps that's the case. However, that doesn't bode well in regards to him also trying to claim he's a Conservative.
    Did Powell actually claim to be a conservative or did he say he was Republican? I have never thought of Powell as a "conservative", so if he claims that he is, I would have to agree with you there.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Thales View Post
    I'm with Newt Gingrich - anyone who thinks they can win elections without getting some portion of the moderates is sadly mistaken.
    I doubt very seriously that Newt Gingrich would agree with you on this point. Taking his statement out of context proves nothing.

    Also, how is that Biden thing working out... what a VP he is turning out to be!
    Obama lied... Ambassador Stevens died!

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    But if it is the strong base that is the most out of tune with the people, ie..the most recent elections, then it would seem logical that if the middle is purged for the base, the party will become less attractive and weaker.
    And I disagree with you on so many levels on this.

    The Strong Base is NOT out of tune with the people, and nothing about the recent election shows me this. The base couldn't stand the person they were having to vote for, only being waken up when Palin got put on the ticket and even that could do so much. McCain is the POSTER BOY for a more moderate Republican party and he failed. The "moderates" that his long history was meant to pull in were enamored with Obama and wasn't giving McCain a second look, and the conservative base didn't buy anything that he tried to pander to them with once he got the nod.

    Indeed, McCain was dead in the water and thought to have no prayer prior to the point where he made a drastic act that actually got the base somewhat interested and increased the flow of money not to mention helped him greatly in the polls and likely is the only thing that kept it from being a full out landslide victory.

    The most extreme social conservatives may be out of line with the majority, but that doesn't mean they need to be flat out ejected. What it means if they can't be the sole focus of what the party is preaching to. I have no doubt if the Republicans started pushing a BALANCED conservative platform, that did include social conservative aspects, but was tempered from going too extreme by other portions of the ideology, that the majority of the most extreme social conservatives would stick with the party while at the same time bringing fiscal conservatives that have been 3rd party and moderates lately back into the fold. If they completely abandon the social plank of the platform then all you'll see is a 10-15 year shift akin to what we've seen in the past 10 years, only replacing social conservatives with fiscal conservatives, but leaving the Republican Party in no better shape then it is now.

    This last election doesn't show the Republicans must move to the center, it re-enforced that they need true balanced conservatism.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelbuc View Post
    I doubt very seriously that Newt Gingrich would agree with you on this point. Taking his statement out of context proves nothing.
    I don't think he'd disagree at all. Newt is an astute Political Scientist and politician, not an ignorant dolt in regards to these issues. There's maybe 20 to 30 percent of the population that is firmly rooted in one of the two major ideologies. The rest of the middle verge anywhere from "moderate", "independent", "moderately [ideology]", or just somewhat political apathetic people.

    You will NEVER win a general election JUST by getting your base, this goes for democrats and republicans. You must ALWAYS add people from the middle.

    The difference Gingrich may have is the PROCESS in which to get moderates. Some people believe that one must be extremely moderate, or even have tendancies of the other side, to be able to get moderates. I reject this notion, with both Obama recently and Reagan in the past as examples of this. You CAN attract moderates by sticking to your ideology fully, by presenting it in a charismatic and easy to understand way that shows them WHY its the way to go. It also needs to not be an EXTREME message. There is not simply two degrees, extreme and moderate, there is gray area in the middle there.

    I reject the notion that the GOP must go to the left to get moderates, I think they've tried this and failed. I think they need to be firmly rooted in conservatism, but a balanced version where no particular portion is extreme while the rest are left for dead. And I completely disagree with the notion that one can win an election without attracting moderates, independents, and people with only a weak conservative lean.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And I disagree with you on so many levels on this.

    The Strong Base is NOT out of tune with the people, and nothing about the recent election shows me this. The base couldn't stand the person they were having to vote for, only being waken up when Palin got put on the ticket and even that could do so much. McCain is the POSTER BOY for a more moderate Republican party and he failed. The "moderates" that his long history was meant to pull in were enamored with Obama and wasn't giving McCain a second look, and the conservative base didn't buy anything that he tried to pander to them with once he got the nod.

    Indeed, McCain was dead in the water and thought to have no prayer prior to the point where he made a drastic act that actually got the base somewhat interested and increased the flow of money not to mention helped him greatly in the polls and likely is the only thing that kept it from being a full out landslide victory.

    The most extreme social conservatives may be out of line with the majority, but that doesn't mean they need to be flat out ejected. What it means if they can't be the sole focus of what the party is preaching to. I have no doubt if the Republicans started pushing a BALANCED conservative platform, that did include social conservative aspects, but was tempered from going too extreme by other portions of the ideology, that the majority of the most extreme social conservatives would stick with the party while at the same time bringing fiscal conservatives that have been 3rd party and moderates lately back into the fold. If they completely abandon the social plank of the platform then all you'll see is a 10-15 year shift akin to what we've seen in the past 10 years, only replacing social conservatives with fiscal conservatives, but leaving the Republican Party in no better shape then it is now.

    This last election doesn't show the Republicans must move to the center, it re-enforced that they need true balanced conservatism.
    The one problem with your theory is that the extreme social conservatives that are the current base of the Republican party will never stand for a more "tempered" approach. They have ZERO interest in the fiscal "Conservatism" of Goldwater. They are three issue voters....anti-abortion/anti-gay rights/ and anti-immigrant. They will never allow the party to do what you suggest. Hell....they rejected Romney because he wasn't "Christian" enough for them, do you really think they are going to allow alternate views in the party?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Disney, I've explained my point on this to you countless times with each time you just sticking your fingers in your ears going "nah nah nah, not true, social conservatives suck, I know everything about them, nah nah nah nah nah". I have no desire to get into it again.

    Will they like it greatly? No. However, as long as they're not completely chucked out on their ass like some are suggesting or not completely ignored once republicans get power (like fiscal and governmental conservatives were), the vast majority are likely to still vote republican and be enthusiastic to varying levels because they're leagues better than the other main alternative and more realistic than alternatives more in line with their thinking. Its only when you completely throw a portion of the ideology into the garbage, like many liberals ignorant of this situation keep suggesting due to their own idiotic stereotypes, or when you almost completely ignore a portion of it once in power that you start seeing large groundswell for a third party, decided reduction in donations and support, and major voter apathy.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Disney, I've explained my point on this to you countless times with each time you just sticking your fingers in your ears going "nah nah nah, not true, social conservatives suck, I know everything about them, nah nah nah nah nah". I have no desire to get into it again.

    Will they like it greatly? No. However, as long as they're not completely chucked out on their ass like some are suggesting or not completely ignored once republicans get power (like fiscal and governmental conservatives were), the vast majority are likely to still vote republican and be enthusiastic to varying levels because they're leagues better than the other main alternative and more realistic than alternatives more in line with their thinking. Its only when you completely throw a portion of the ideology into the garbage, like many liberals ignorant of this situation keep suggesting due to their own idiotic stereotypes, or when you almost completely ignore a portion of it once in power that you start seeing large groundswell for a third party, decided reduction in donations and support, and major voter apathy.
    In no way would I chuck them out, they provide too many votes, when motivated, and too much money. However, I would control how much zealotry was released in order to not allow the whole party to be overshadowed.

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