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Thread: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

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    Re: Hey Truth Detector, there just one line of truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I see that not only do you NOT attempt to deal in coherent or substantive thoughts, but you also misuse the term "rant" in a deliberate attempt to provoke:

    Main Entry: rant !rant
    Pronunciation: \ ˈrant \
    Function: verb
    Etymology: obsolete Dutch ranten, randen
    Date: 1601
    Results
    intransitive verb
    1601
    1. to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner

    2. to scold vehemently transitive verb

    transitive verb
    to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion


    Come back when you can do more than blather such uninformed provocative hyperbole.
    There is no need to try and provoke anyone who has himself apparently attempted to provoke with " inexperienced community Organizing Liberal Leftist like Obama. " ..

    And I do not need a dictionary to tell me that it is your statement that is "uninformed provocative hyperbole: . Quotes are to grant you due credit.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    Why didn't Powell endorse McCain right off the bat instead of waiting until after McCain's numbers sucked so bad (doing specifically what Powell & other moderates said the GOP should do), that John McCain's team had to go out and add on Sarah Palin to energize the base?

    Who knows, if General Powell had endorsed McCain (the moderate) right off the bat, the GOP might have made a bee-line to the middle as Powell and others suggest they must do. Instead he waited. Why?
    I couldn't tell you... I wish things had worked out differently, and the voters had gotten the honest fight between moderate McCain and Obama. Instead we got stuck with "I can see Russia from my house!". Maybe Powell was waiting to see what developed, but I agree that an earlier push from the moderates might have helped change the direction of the campaign.

    Also, as far as Newt is concerned, I think he get credit for being the catalyst that initially divided our nation to begin with. He is symbolic of why the GOP is in the fix it's in today. Just add a few Limbaughs, Kenneth Starr's, Brother Jeb's, and viola!
    I'm not necessarily saying Gingrich's actions are symbolic of this. I was just referencing his political analysis to show that even conservatives recognize that moderates are an important electoral force.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    I am going to disagree with Mr. Powell, but not in a hyper-partisan, lets mock liberals while we are taking pot shots at everybody, kind of way.

    McCain was as center as one could expect a politician could get. He agreed with liberals on global warming, he worked hand in hand to try and find ways to bring illegal immigrants into the fold, he is against any kind of torture, he's worked with democrats on a number of things openly and unashamedly. He voted, like Obama, to bail-out the banks. McCain did everything he could to be a centrist politician. The only thing he didn't do, was pick a centrist running mate, and suprise, she gave him a desperately needed bump in the polls, when she was painted as this great conservative pick. Now the interest from moderate/independent America waned, as Mrs. Palin's inexperience with the national spotlight and lack of high level political experience/manuevering reduced the effectiveness of her selection. However, I believe if McCain was to have chosen another centrist candidate to run with him, he gets waxed in the GE in a Mondale like fashion.

    All this talk about Republicans needing to "move to the center" is garbage. There is no one more center, than John McCain, and he got beaten by a large margin at the polls.

    The reason I think John McCain lost, actually has nothing to do with conservatism, liberalism, etc....What his election night loss was, was simply the perfect storm of two things. The rejection of the Republican(read:not necessarily conservative) policy of the last 8 years, and the chance for America to embrace an "historic" election. John McCain stood no chance, because he failed to do the one thing that matters when running for the POTUS. He didn't show America that he was going to take America a new direction. It was all too easy for those on the left to paint John McCain as "another 4 years", precisely because he wasn't showing himself to be any different than the kind of Republicans(read again:not necessarily conservatives) that were running Washington over the past 8 years.

    Forget all this "sliding to the right is dangerous" crap. We didn't, as a society, suddenly lurch to the left with Obama's election. America is still very much a right of center country, when considered amongst the other world governments. What is simply needed, is a simple powerful, consistent message to the American people delivered by a competent, vetted candidate who can clearly articulate Goldwater-esque conservative ideals. Thats it. Obama won the POTUS with nothing more than that(well minus the Golwater conservatism). His message was clear, concise, and delivered in a simple yet articulate manner. "Change", a promise that things would somehow be different, and that through him America would reject the past 8 years as if they were simply no more than a bad dream. He was able to articulate, and seperate himself(in the public opinion) from what was going on in Washington. Thats the formula for success. Americans do not care for complicity, no matter how valid or correct the stance might be. Conservatism has to simplify its code, reject the complicities laid into it by republicans over the last 8 years(if not more), and then find a leader who can coherently emulate this simplified message to the American people. Two things will happen, one they will reach the audience(moderates and independents) more quickly. The message will be easily digestable. Two, the Democrats will create their own damage, by the simple virtue of holding unchecked power in Washington for however many years it takes for a true conservative to find his/her way to the national stage. The people will want change, again. It will be up to conservatives, to sell to the American people, that they will be that change. And then, after Washington corrupts them and they abandon those principles that got them elected, the liberals will have their chance.

    Wash, lather, rinse, repeat.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  4. #34
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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    There are still a handful of hold-outs that insist that the GOP needs to go the hard right to gain back the support of the American people. What they can't seem to get into thier thick skulls is, that is how they lost the people in the first place.

    Oh well. There aren't enough of them to worry about anyways. Maybe there are enough of them left to maintain Rush's salary, but not enough of them to elect a dog catcher.

    But they can always come here to vent. We'll listen. <snicker.>

    Let 'em whine. Who cares? America has spoken. Get over it.
    Reagan was as Conservative as Rush and Cheney.

    He articulated a clear conservative message and didn't do too badly. He only won 49 states the second time around.

    His message harkens back to the Founders, and in the short 21-years since his departure that philosophy won't be best for America unless it's watered down with large doses of Marxism... bizarro.

    He had to fight a Left wing Congress and accomplished most everything he set out to do.

    Only the Libs in Congress didn't live up to cutting spending as agreed.

    If they had done what they agreed to do, cut spending, or been even somewhat responsible and fiscally conservative while having a military that dwarfs this one, we would be doing OK.

    I'd rather be right and in the minority than sell-out to the destructive philosophy of people like Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Kerry, Durbin, Kennedy, Holder, Clintons, Gore, Kucinich, Frank, Shumer and the remainder of their freaked out leadership.

    When it comes time to fix the mess these idiots have created with their Junior High view of the world, I want men of steel going back to fundamentals and educating the masses at each turn.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Well then, maybe I got my definitions all sideways.

    Please tell me which element of our society supports/lobby's for the following:

    1. Making abortions illegal.
    This social conservative believes that life begins at conception. This social Conservative understands that abortion is not clearly laid out in the constitution so it is a matter left up to the states to decide. This social Conservatives views are at odds with the Statist who wants to bypass the Constitution and make abortion a federal issue when the Federal Government has no Constitutional authority to do so.

    2. Keeping marijuana illegal.
    This social conservative believes that smoking marijuana should be a matter of personal choice. This social Conservative believes that using government to curb behavior that only harms the individual doing it makes the Government a tool to shape society in ways palatable to those who hold the seat of power.

    3. Keeping marriage options away from same sex couples, by law.
    State's issue. Do I really need to go into this one?

    4. Censoring performance speech.
    Where? When? It is impossible to censor without the force of government. There is a difference between protest, illegal activity designed to "silence" and - censorship.

    The left is openly talking about forwarding some new form of the fairness doctrine. That is censorship

    5. "Acceptable" dress codes.
    I would only support dress codes if they involved private property or were a health threat to the public. Wearing a shirt and shoes in public places is acceptable, so I wouldn't on the side of someone exposing their bare ass in a convenience store. Malls are private property so if a Mall wants to outlaw gang-orientated clothing they can do so freely at their own economic peril.

    6. Swiftboat style propaganda.
    I don't really understand how propaganda applies exclusively to anyone.

    It's those kinda folks America wants to get away from. People like Limbaugh and Hannity. I thought them to be social conservatives. If I am wrong, I stand corrected.
    I think Rush Limbaugh can articulate Conservatism in a simple practical way which makes him appealing to people who are not really into politics too much but still care enough to stay involved. Sean Hannity is a little over-simplistic and shallow for my tastes - he's entry level.



    s far as Newt is concerned, I think he get credit for being the catalyst that initially divided our nation to begin with. He is symbolic of why the GOP is in the fix it's in today. Just add a few Limbaughs, Kenneth Starr's, Brother Jeb's, and viola!
    Newt is a deeply socially conservative Republican.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by Thales View Post
    I'll be honest, that was probably a factor. And I don't claim to speak for Colin Powell, but in his defense...

    He cited several reasons for choosing Obama over McCain. A significant factor, he said, was McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as VP.

    And yes, he did express dissatisfaction with the Republican party. Powell was disgusted by Republican fear campaigns labeling Obama as a Muslim, and making the tenuous Ayers/Weatherman connection. And he asked a question I applaud him for - "So what if he was Muslim?" Powell said he felt the Republican party was becoming "narrower and narrower". In the end, he believed Obama had the superior judgment and was running by far the better, more inclusive campaign.

    (Article: Powell endorses Obama for president - Meet the Press, online at MSNBC- msnbc.com)

    He called out the GOP on everything that was wrong with the party, namely pandering to extreme social conservatives and PACs aimed at the lowest common denominator. Maybe this means the Republicans should cast him from their ranks. Or maybe he's right, and Republicans need to examine who is "allowed" in their party.

    I'm with Newt Gingrich - anyone who thinks they can win elections without getting some portion of the moderates is sadly mistaken.
    I have to laugh at the notion that an intellectual midget like Biden is some how a better choice than Palin. But then, I never chose my candidates based on the Veep choice but based purely on the experience and Conservative values of the Presidential choice; that said, I always seem to be choosing between the lesser of two evils as well.

    I am equally amused at the notion that Democrats do not engage in fear mongering and swift boating. They have basically swift boated the last 8 years of the Bush Administration; my favorite one being that Bush was a draft dodging deserter.


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    Re: Hey Truth Detector, there just one line of truth

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    There is no need to try and provoke anyone who has himself apparently attempted to provoke with " inexperienced community Organizing Liberal Leftist like Obama. " ..

    And I do not need a dictionary to tell me that it is your statement that is "uninformed provocative hyperbole: . Quotes are to grant you due credit.
    I see you also have difficulty distinguishing between provocative rhetoric regarding a candidate and provocative rhetoric attacking someone personally.

    But you are welcome to show where my description of Obama was false or incorrect; he was a community organizer, he IS inexperienced and unqualified for the job per his OWN statements and his policies are Liberal and LEFT.

    Dismissed; take your whiney diatribes to another thread.

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I am going to disagree with Mr. Powell, but not in a hyper-partisan, lets mock liberals while we are taking pot shots at everybody, kind of way.

    McCain was as center as one could expect a politician could get. He agreed with liberals on global warming, he worked hand in hand to try and find ways to bring illegal immigrants into the fold, he is against any kind of torture, he's worked with democrats on a number of things openly and unashamedly. He voted, like Obama, to bail-out the banks. McCain did everything he could to be a centrist politician. The only thing he didn't do, was pick a centrist running mate, and suprise, she gave him a desperately needed bump in the polls, when she was painted as this great conservative pick. Now the interest from moderate/independent America waned, as Mrs. Palin's inexperience with the national spotlight and lack of high level political experience/manuevering reduced the effectiveness of her selection. However, I believe if McCain was to have chosen another centrist candidate to run with him, he gets waxed in the GE in a Mondale like fashion.

    All this talk about Republicans needing to "move to the center" is garbage. There is no one more center, than John McCain, and he got beaten by a large margin at the polls.

    The reason I think John McCain lost, actually has nothing to do with conservatism, liberalism, etc....What his election night loss was, was simply the perfect storm of two things. The rejection of the Republican(read:not necessarily conservative) policy of the last 8 years, and the chance for America to embrace an "historic" election. John McCain stood no chance, because he failed to do the one thing that matters when running for the POTUS. He didn't show America that he was going to take America a new direction. It was all too easy for those on the left to paint John McCain as "another 4 years", precisely because he wasn't showing himself to be any different than the kind of Republicans(read again:not necessarily conservatives) that were running Washington over the past 8 years.

    Forget all this "sliding to the right is dangerous" crap. We didn't, as a society, suddenly lurch to the left with Obama's election. America is still very much a right of center country, when considered amongst the other world governments. What is simply needed, is a simple powerful, consistent message to the American people delivered by a competent, vetted candidate who can clearly articulate Goldwater-esque conservative ideals. Thats it. Obama won the POTUS with nothing more than that(well minus the Golwater conservatism). His message was clear, concise, and delivered in a simple yet articulate manner. "Change", a promise that things would somehow be different, and that through him America would reject the past 8 years as if they were simply no more than a bad dream. He was able to articulate, and seperate himself(in the public opinion) from what was going on in Washington. Thats the formula for success. Americans do not care for complicity, no matter how valid or correct the stance might be. Conservatism has to simplify its code, reject the complicities laid into it by republicans over the last 8 years(if not more), and then find a leader who can coherently emulate this simplified message to the American people. Two things will happen, one they will reach the audience(moderates and independents) more quickly. The message will be easily digestable. Two, the Democrats will create their own damage, by the simple virtue of holding unchecked power in Washington for however many years it takes for a true conservative to find his/her way to the national stage. The people will want change, again. It will be up to conservatives, to sell to the American people, that they will be that change. And then, after Washington corrupts them and they abandon those principles that got them elected, the liberals will have their chance.

    Wash, lather, rinse, repeat.
    I am always amazed that "Republicans - Conservatives" are held to this HIGH standard of incorruptibility that Democrats seem to be able to avoid.

    Democrats held onto Legislative power for FOUR decades. Republicans 12 short years; yet in those short years did manage to balance the Federal budget for the first time in at least FOUR decades.

    The notion that they were corrupted by Washington Power is a laughable Liberal media talking point which many apparently swallow hook line and sinker.

    The BIGGEST hurdle the Republicans will always need to overcome is the power of a Liberal elite media that literally had to drag this "post turtle" named Obama across the finish line.

    It is very hard to get a message across when it is constantly diluted by the media’s interpretation of what they stand for. But alas, Obama won not because of the great campaign he led, but rather by the desperate attempts of the Liberal media to drag his sorry butt to the finish line. The attack on Palin was a shining example of what they are capable of when they leave the false perception behind that they are somehow unbiased and merely report the news.

    Obama also won because the American people were constantly misinformed by this same media about how the War Effort in Iraq was based on a lie, a failure and unnecessary using Abu Graib and WMDs as their rallying points (sounds like Osama's prediction came true eh?).

    Make no mistake about it, as long as a Liberal elite can control the message to the American people, beating THIER candidates will be a difficult challenge which is why Fox News, Hannity and Rush are portrayed as the very essence of evil.

    Why do you think Conservative talk radio is such a target for them?

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I am going to disagree with Mr. Powell, but not in a hyper-partisan, lets mock liberals while we are taking pot shots at everybody, kind of way.

    McCain was as center as one could expect a politician could get. He agreed with liberals on global warming, he worked hand in hand to try and find ways to bring illegal immigrants into the fold, he is against any kind of torture, he's worked with democrats on a number of things openly and unashamedly. He voted, like Obama, to bail-out the banks. McCain did everything he could to be a centrist politician. The only thing he didn't do, was pick a centrist running mate, and suprise, she gave him a desperately needed bump in the polls, when she was painted as this great conservative pick. Now the interest from moderate/independent America waned, as Mrs. Palin's inexperience with the national spotlight and lack of high level political experience/manuevering reduced the effectiveness of her selection. However, I believe if McCain was to have chosen another centrist candidate to run with him, he gets waxed in the GE in a Mondale like fashion.

    All this talk about Republicans needing to "move to the center" is garbage. There is no one more center, than John McCain, and he got beaten by a large margin at the polls.

    The reason I think John McCain lost, actually has nothing to do with conservatism, liberalism, etc....What his election night loss was, was simply the perfect storm of two things. The rejection of the Republican(read:not necessarily conservative) policy of the last 8 years, and the chance for America to embrace an "historic" election. John McCain stood no chance, because he failed to do the one thing that matters when running for the POTUS. He didn't show America that he was going to take America a new direction. It was all too easy for those on the left to paint John McCain as "another 4 years", precisely because he wasn't showing himself to be any different than the kind of Republicans(read again:not necessarily conservatives) that were running Washington over the past 8 years.

    Forget all this "sliding to the right is dangerous" crap. We didn't, as a society, suddenly lurch to the left with Obama's election. America is still very much a right of center country, when considered amongst the other world governments. What is simply needed, is a simple powerful, consistent message to the American people delivered by a competent, vetted candidate who can clearly articulate Goldwater-esque conservative ideals. Thats it. Obama won the POTUS with nothing more than that(well minus the Golwater conservatism). His message was clear, concise, and delivered in a simple yet articulate manner. "Change", a promise that things would somehow be different, and that through him America would reject the past 8 years as if they were simply no more than a bad dream. He was able to articulate, and seperate himself(in the public opinion) from what was going on in Washington. Thats the formula for success. Americans do not care for complicity, no matter how valid or correct the stance might be. Conservatism has to simplify its code, reject the complicities laid into it by republicans over the last 8 years(if not more), and then find a leader who can coherently emulate this simplified message to the American people. Two things will happen, one they will reach the audience(moderates and independents) more quickly. The message will be easily digestable. Two, the Democrats will create their own damage, by the simple virtue of holding unchecked power in Washington for however many years it takes for a true conservative to find his/her way to the national stage. The people will want change, again. It will be up to conservatives, to sell to the American people, that they will be that change. And then, after Washington corrupts them and they abandon those principles that got them elected, the liberals will have their chance.

    Wash, lather, rinse, repeat.
    First of all congratulations on a well stated and coherent opinion which did not rely on name calling such as community Organizer, Liberal Leftist, Socialist, left-Whack blah and blah. I was hoping that there would be people like that in this site since we lost that over in the un-mentioned place. I left there since I found myself arguing down to their level instead of up to this level.

    I agree that McCain did need someone with at least a perceived more conservative position than his own in order to attract more of the "conservative” base plus. I do agree with you that Palin was “inexperienced” but I also believe that there was evidence that she has other defects which cannot be negated with more experience. I feel that she has character flaws and one of those is her propensity to involve herself in an investigation of a police officer (her brother -n -law) who admittedly does not appear will be a recipient of a father of the year award but who deserves to have his case come to conclusion without the interference e of a former sister-in -law who happens to have the power to interfere since she is the governor. There are also the expense account shenanigans for herself and for taking her children on political tours.

    You are correct that the convergence of economic cycles hurst McCAIN. Yet I must remind you that the apparent lack of regulation and/or lack of regulatory application in the financial markets by POTUS Obama's predecessor did hurt McCain. And it did not help McCain that the Democratic strategists and Obama did very skillfully manage to tie McCain to Bush II. This was not just plain propaganda since McCain did himself brag that he agreed with 90% of what the Bush II did.

    I agree that the Liberals and Democrats should not go off thinking that their empire will last 1000 years ( hyperbole) since all they need to do is read again what the Karl Rove said about Republicans destined to be in power for generations !!!!

    Seriously your post looks virtually professional as if something one would read in the paid for OP ED writers in a major newspaper. If you don't write professionally you should.
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 05-25-09 at 08:40 PM.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Powell cautions against a GOP slide to the right

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    First of all congratulations on a well stated and coherent opinion which did not rely on name calling such as community Organizer, Liberal Leftist, Socialist, left-Whack blah and blah. I was hoping that there would be people like that in this site since we lost that over in the un-mentioned place. I left there since I found myself arguing down to their level instead of up to this level.

    I agree that McCain did need someone with at least a perceived more conservative position than his own in order to attract more of the "conservative” base plus. I do agree with you that Palin was “inexperienced” but I also believe that there was evidence that she has other defects which cannot be negated with more experience. I feel that she has character flaws and one of those is her propensity to involve herself in an investigation of a police officer (her brother -n -law) who admittedly does not appear will be a recipient of a father of the year award but who deserves to have his case come to conclusion without the interference e of a former sister-in -law who happens to have the power to interfere since she is the governor. There are also the expense account shenanigans for herself and for taking her children on political tours.

    You are correct that the convergence of economic cycles hurst McCAIN. Yet I must remind you that the apparent lack of regulation and/or lack of regulatory application in the financial markets by POTUS Obama's predecessor did hurt McCain. And it did not help McCain that the Democratic strategists and Obama did very skillfully manage to tie McCain to Bush II. This was not just plain propaganda since McCain did himself brag that he agreed with 90% of what the Bush II did.

    I agree that the Liberals and Democrats should not go off thinking that their empire will last 1000 years ( hyperbole) since all they need to do is read again what the Karl Rove said about Republicans destined to be in power for generations !!!!

    Seriously your post looks virtually professional as if something one would read in the paid for OP ED writers in a major newspaper. If you don't write professionally you should.
    Well thank you for the compliment, but I would hardly be a good writer, as I rail against Spelling and Grammar Nazis, on a regular basis.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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