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Thread: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

  1. #51
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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    It has everything to do with the asinine Liberal assertion that our troops will be at greater risk because of the use of these methods.
    Who ever said that? To me it has more to do with setting ourselves to a higher standard than our enemies and thereby separating ourselves from them.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    I heard a LOT of stories from Viet Nam returnees about what was done to Charlie. Zippers, castration, bridge scrapings. Makes waterboarding sound like a summer sport. And the torture the NVA put on our boys was just as bad, if not worse.

    That's why I think we are all naive to think that we haven't been using "enhanced interrogation methods" all along.

    I could care less if they ran bamboo shoots under their fingernails. It matters NOT which path we take, Civil or insane barbaric, the jihadist will cut our heads off, if given the chance, regardless. It's kind of hard for me to muster any sympathy for these vermin.

    Is waterboarding torture? You bet it is. Do I care? Uhhh..... no.
    Last edited by Captain America; 05-25-09 at 04:33 PM.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Waterboarding is Illegal - Washington University Law Review

    Three major treaties that the United States has signed and unambiguously ratified prohibit the United States from subjecting prisoners in the War on Terror to this kind of treatment. First, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, which the Senate unanimously ratified in 1955, prohibits the parties to the treaty from acts upon prisoners including “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; . . . outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment.”[18] Second, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the Senate ratified in 1992, states that “[n]o one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”[19] Third, the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, which the Senate ratified in 1994, provides that “[e]ach State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction,”[20] and that “[e]ach State Party shall undertake to prevent in any territory under its jurisdiction other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture . . . .”[21]

    The United States has enacted statutes prohibiting torture and cruel or inhuman treatment. It is these statutes which make waterboarding illegal.[22] The four principal statutes which Congress has adopted to implement the provisions of the foregoing treaties are the Torture Act,[23] the War Crimes Act,[24],and the laws entitled “Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment of Persons Under Custody or Control of the United States Government”[25] and “Additional Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.”[26] The first two statutes are criminal laws while the latter two statutes extend civil rights to any person in the custody of the United States anywhere in the world.

    The Torture Act makes it a felony for any person, acting under color of law, to commit an act of torture upon any person within the defendant’s custody or control outside the United States.[27] Torture is defined as the intentional infliction of “severe physical or mental pain or suffering” upon a person within the defendant’s custody or control.[28] To be “severe,” any mental pain or suffering resulting from torture must be “prolonged.”

    [29] Under this law, torture is punishable by up to twenty years imprisonment unless the victim dies as a result of the torture, in which case the penalty is death or life in prison.[30]

    Twenty years seems like a fair deal I think Cheney should take it before somebody proves he approved of somebody being tortured to death.

    Which we all know happened.
    The Geneva Convention does not apply to enemy terrorist non-uniformed combatants and/or nations NOT a party to the conventions. You may want to brush up on your legalese.

    Secondly, the United Nations own description of torture requires the acts to be severe mental or physical methods.

    Again, suggesting that Waterboarding is severe using the Liberals arguments and the New York Liberal Times own story that one detainee was subjected to the technique 187 times suggest anything BUT.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    It has everything to do with the asinine Liberal assertion that our troops will be at greater risk because of the use of these methods.
    Iraq general swayed Obama on detainee photos | csmonitor.com

    Gen. Ray Odierno, along with other top defense officials, argued that releasing the images of alleged detainee abuse would endanger US troops abroad.



    Washington

    In a reversal of his previous position, President Obama will now oppose the release of more than 40 photos allegedly showing detainees being mistreated after deciding that releasing them could put American troops in danger and inflame anti-US sentiments abroad.

    The change of heart apparently came after Gen. Ray Odierno, the top commander in Iraq, made a personal plea to the White House against releasing the images because they would endanger US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. The images are thought to show US troops mistreating detainees overseas in ways reminiscent of the 2004 Abu Ghraib prison scandal.


    Do you support the troops TD?

    Well this is the MAIN troops saying this and it's not just some "assine liberal assertion" as you lamely claim over and over again.

    Why ignore reality?

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    Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I think it important for all that justify waterboarding to first admit that it's torture. That way, it will in some way help me feel that they are more aware, and not regurgitating talking head points.
    So we all gather 'round, nod our heads sagaciously, and say "Yup, waterboarding is torture".

    Then what? What does that change? Not the legal reasoning behind the authorizations for the technique. Not the information gained using the technique.

    Your's a fatuous argument, because if you're making the argument that we're bad silly people for waterboarding detainees, we're bad silly people regardless of whether everyone agrees that it is or is not "torture". All you're doing is taking one predicate of the following hypothetical and ignoring the second predicate:

    Waterboarding is torture
    Torture is immoral
    Therefore waterboarding is immoral

    Feel free to substitute "wrong" or "illegal" for "immoral" to match up with your precise pontification.

    The flaw in your argument, however, is that you've completely ignored the second predicate--the first only matters if the second also holds true, and even Dear Leader himself hedges on that (remember, he's only outraged about Gitmo; he's quite ok with transferring the outrageous activities to Bagram Air Base). Nancy Pelosi, before it was politically convenient to pretend outrage, hedged on either one or both predicates. AG Holder declined to pursue prosecutions over the matter. Everyone wishes to pretend the second predicate is conclusively and absolutely proven when it has not.

    You carp about people parroting talking head points when all you're doing is exactly that.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    It's kind of hard for me to muster any sympathy for these vermin.
    I think you would be surprised at the complete lack of sympathy that terrorist actually get from those of us against using torture. I think that we should be better than to use torture. I could care less how badly terrorists feel. I have not lost any sleep thinking about what terrorists have been put through.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I thought 'the left' would be more open to Stalin as they passionately seek his economics.

    I do not hear any support of 'moral standing' from anyone who supports abortion or gay-marriage, as every such person, without exception, has abandoned such notions long ago.

    Morality is relative now, we can do what we want.
    Then I would put it to you that the cannibal is just as moral in his society as the church goer is in ours.
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    Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The flaw in your argument, however, is that you've completely ignored the second predicate--the first only matters if the second also holds true, and even Dear Leader himself hedges on that (remember, he's only outraged about Gitmo; he's quite ok with transferring the outrageous activities to Bagram Air Base). Nancy Pelosi, before it was politically convenient to pretend outrage, hedged on either one or both predicates. AG Holder declined to pursue prosecutions over the matter. Everyone wishes to pretend the second predicate is conclusively and absolutely proven when it has not.
    What the hell does what politicians think have to do with whether we feel that the use of waterboarding is justified or not? That is a huge red herring. I do not care what President Obama calls waterboarding. I call it torture, and immoral.

    By the way, how do you prove something is moral or not?

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Who ever said that? To me it has more to do with setting ourselves to a higher standard than our enemies and thereby separating ourselves from them.
    The notion that we are not already at a MUCH higher standard than our enemies requires willful denial don't you think?

    It is the same with the equally asinine notion that waterboarding puts us down at their level when considering the REALITY of how their victims are treated.

    I submit that it takes an incredible level of willful denial to suggest that this is nothing more than a political witch-hunt to impugn the previous administration for purely political purposes.

    Now, back to the REALITY; these methods were briefed to the Congress and they were justified legally and debated with great and thoughtful deliberation before the decision was made to use these "enhanced" methods on a select FEW terrorists who were resisting other methods.

    This debate is without any substantive merit in that these actions occurred shortly after the events of 9-11 when our Government was struggling to grapple with unprecedented terrorist attacks and the idea of possible equally or greater devastating attacks.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think you would be surprised at the complete lack of sympathy that terrorist actually get from those of us against using torture. I think that we should be better than to use torture. I could care less how badly terrorists feel. I have not lost any sleep thinking about what terrorists have been put through.
    I think people need to drop the bloviations about being "better". America isn't "better" than anyone. We're loved by some, hated by some, tolerated by the rest, and that is all.

    We've had a century of this Wilsonian nonsense about being "better"; that's more than enough for any nation.

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