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Thread: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not satisfied that waterboarding is in fact torture, but if it is, then I support torture when it proves effective.
    At least you identify that you are OK with it even if it is torture. This is the point of debate that I have been trying to bring out of people here for a year in countless threads on the issue. The debate about whether it is torture or not is moot. The real debate is whether you would support it regardless of how it is identified. At least you addressed this issue. Most are afraid to.
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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not satisfied that waterboarding is in fact torture, but if it is, then I support torture when it proves effective.
    How can you not be satisfied that waterboarding is in FACT not torture?

    All you have to do is read the Rule of law and understand international treaties to clearly understand it is in fact by law torture.

    Have you read the Laws pertaining to waterboarding?

    Have you read the international treaties our country signed in reguards to waterboarding being torture and warcrime?

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    Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    You're dissembling.

    My point was clear and obvious. This constant debate over whether waterboarding is or is not "torture" is meaningless, substanceless, and irrelevant.

    Waterboarding was a technique used by CIA interrogators to extract actionable intelligence from Gitmo detainees. President Bush, having sought opinions from counsel in the Department of Justice, authorized the technique. Dear Leader, wisely or unwisely, has rescinded the authorization for the technique (for now).

    I'll happily defend the technique and its use in Gitmo interrogations all day long. As I have stated in other threads, I'll defend it even if it can be shown categorically to be "torture". Calling it "torture" does not alter the ethic of its use one iota.

    Thus when people go on about how they can't fathom people not calling waterboarding "torture", my response is a firm and decided "so what?"
    From your viewpoint, it is "meaningless, substanceless, and irrelevant". Since the argument of some is that it is not torture, therefore it is ok, this suggests that for at least some, this is a germane issue.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    At least you identify that you are OK with it even if it is torture. This is the point of debate that I have been trying to bring out of people here for a year in countless threads on the issue. The debate about whether it is torture or not is moot. The real debate is whether you would support it regardless of how it is identified. At least you addressed this issue. Most are afraid to.
    Hmmm....I'm agreeing with you and disagreeing with Redress....

    Either I've had too much beer or not enough.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Hmmm....I'm agreeing with you and disagreeing with Redress....

    Either I've had too much beer or not enough.
    You get a thanks for making me laugh.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Waterboarding is Illegal - Washington University Law Review

    Three major treaties that the United States has signed and unambiguously ratified prohibit the United States from subjecting prisoners in the War on Terror to this kind of treatment. First, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, which the Senate unanimously ratified in 1955, prohibits the parties to the treaty from acts upon prisoners including “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; . . . outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment.”[18] Second, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the Senate ratified in 1992, states that “[n]o one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”[19] Third, the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, which the Senate ratified in 1994, provides that “[e]ach State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction,”[20] and that “[e]ach State Party shall undertake to prevent in any territory under its jurisdiction other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture . . . .”[21]

    The United States has enacted statutes prohibiting torture and cruel or inhuman treatment. It is these statutes which make waterboarding illegal.[22] The four principal statutes which Congress has adopted to implement the provisions of the foregoing treaties are the Torture Act,[23] the War Crimes Act,[24],and the laws entitled “Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment of Persons Under Custody or Control of the United States Government”[25] and “Additional Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.”[26] The first two statutes are criminal laws while the latter two statutes extend civil rights to any person in the custody of the United States anywhere in the world.

    The Torture Act makes it a felony for any person, acting under color of law, to commit an act of torture upon any person within the defendant’s custody or control outside the United States.[27] Torture is defined as the intentional infliction of “severe physical or mental pain or suffering” upon a person within the defendant’s custody or control.[28] To be “severe,” any mental pain or suffering resulting from torture must be “prolonged.”

    [29] Under this law, torture is punishable by up to twenty years imprisonment unless the victim dies as a result of the torture, in which case the penalty is death or life in prison.[30]

    Twenty years seems like a fair deal I think Cheney should take it before somebody proves he approved of somebody being tortured to death.

    Which we all know happened.

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    Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This has absolutely zero to do with what you quoted. Some people do in fact say that waterboarding is not torture. This is what she was commenting on, not whether it worked or not, which is questionable and unprovable(ie, we do not have any way of knowing if other methods would have been as effective or more effective).
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    I think it important for all that justify waterboarding to first admit that it's torture. That way, it will in some way help me feel that they are more aware, and not regurgitating talking head points.

    Waterboarding = torture... there's no other way to describe it. If you don't think it is, you're not getting your information from good sources. Whether it's justified or not is a whole other issue.
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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    I think the main reason the Right is so determined to deny the reality of things is that they know if one goes down they all go down.

    Quite the motivator if you ask me.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I was about 10 when Vietnam ended. Most of the people commenting on this subject where younger. Vietnam has nothing to do with this, though I can see why you would want to deflect attention away from the now, and onto Vietnam.
    It has everything to do with the asinine Liberal assertion that our troops will be at greater risk because of the use of these methods.

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    Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    You're dissembling.

    My point was clear and obvious. This constant debate over whether waterboarding is or is not "torture" is meaningless, substanceless, and irrelevant.

    Waterboarding was a technique used by CIA interrogators to extract actionable intelligence from Gitmo detainees. President Bush, having sought opinions from counsel in the Department of Justice, authorized the technique. Dear Leader, wisely or unwisely, has rescinded the authorization for the technique (for now).

    I'll happily defend the technique and its use in Gitmo interrogations all day long. As I have stated in other threads, I'll defend it even if it can be shown categorically to be "torture". Calling it "torture" does not alter the ethic of its use one iota.

    Thus when people go on about how they can't fathom people not calling waterboarding "torture", my response is a firm and decided "so what?"
    I have a slight correction to the above CORRECT assertions; these methods were conducted on a VERY select FEW detainees, some say it was THREE, because they were resisting other less intrusive methods.

    It is not like we wantonly submitted every detainee to these methods which is the impression one gets when reading the Liberal media reports on the topic.

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