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Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

So would I.

But waterboarding is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. We should chop heads like our enemy does. That would give our squirmish, touchy-feely, dreamy-kum-ba-ya-pacifists something a LOT more interesting to talk about. :rofl

When we start giving them acid baths, maybe then, I might get concerned.

See that highlights my chief obstacle in accurately describing my position here.

Just because I support waterboarding a high-value terrorist on a mis-marked ship which serves as a black prison on international water does not mean I support Hussane stripping flesh from the national soccer team's backs and then forcing them to take a swim in a pool full of sewage just because they didn't win the gold at the Olympics.
 
Quite simple: my personal comfort level is higher than yours.

Now, I do not mean "higher" as in "superior", I mean "higher" as in "more tolerant"; smiler to pain tolerance, ironically.

Waterboarding is what waterboarding is, and no dictionary literally, physically changes the actual procedure. Since I am ok with the procedure, then if you come along and call it "torture", it follows that I am ok with "torture".

I may or may not be ok with other forms of "torture", it all depends on the actual procedure.

As to the various international treaties: I do not claim to be a scholar by any respect, but I do believe I have a basic understanding of the principals and rules of the Geneva Conventions (for example).

Terrorists disregard all such international law except when it suits them.

In order for self defense to be effective, you have to be willing to go further than your opponent is. Therefore, since they disregard international law, so must we.

We don't have to be so upfront about it, which is where the issue of image and reputation come in. We can put enough spit and polish on our image to give plausible denyability and secure general public support. However, the bottom line is we need to do whatever is necessary to defend ourselves and further assert American dominance.

If that means taking "torture" underground so we can keep doing it, then so be it.

so you're comfort level alllows for breaking American laws reguarding waterboarding and violating international treaties in reguards to warcrimes?
 
so you're comfort level alllows for breaking American laws reguarding waterboarding and violating international treaties in reguards to warcrimes?

Yet none of this actually occurred; what proof do I have? The simple fact that Democrats have not and will not attempt to bring any criminal charges for these acts but rather act it out in hearings and the court of public opinion because the facts do not support such hysterical emotional hyperbole.

Their goal is obvious except to the most gullible; to impugn their political opponents for the simple fact that they disagree with their politics. This is the worst threat to Democracy and freedom we have seen in this nation since it's inception.

When the winning party gets into power and then attempts to criminalize the decisions of the previous administration for political purposes, we are entering the realm of third world Fascism.

The asinine attempts by the Democrats now in power are evidence of a political party that wants to enact a fascist like agenda in order to hold onto that which means much more to them than principles, morality or honest intellectual differences, pure political power.
 
Liberals approve torture, but act out feigned indignation for public consumption. That's what's really up with Pelosi. She supported it, but got found out. So her hypocracy is plain for her supporters to see.
 
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Yet none of this actually occurred; what proof do I have? The simple fact that Democrats have not and will not attempt to bring any criminal charges for these acts but rather act it out in hearings and the court of public opinion because the facts do not support such hysterical emotional hyperbole.

Their goal is obvious except to the most gullible; to impugn their political opponents for the simple fact that they disagree with their politics. This is the worst threat to Democracy and freedom we have seen in this nation since it's inception.

When the winning party gets into power and then attempts to criminalize the decisions of the previous administration for political purposes, we are entering the realm of third world Fascism.

The asinine attempts by the Democrats now in power are evidence of a political party that wants to enact a fascist like agenda in order to hold onto that which means much more to them than principles, morality or honest intellectual differences, pure political power.

Yes you are right the Dems will not bring the charges...America will and the world will demand it.

It's called doing the right thing.
 
Yes you are right the Dems will not bring the charges...America will and the world will demand it.

It's called doing the right thing.
America will do the right thing....and not charge anybody as there was no crime committed.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Ok, you say it's torture. Ummm.....so what?

A talking head gets water poured up his nose and he says its torture. Ummm.....so what?

Three terrorists who got water poured up their nose said stuff a great deal more interesting--actionable intelligence. It accomplished what it was meant to accomplish. Every interrogation technique ever devised has as its motivation getting people to reveal things; the caliber of the technique is gauged by the quality of the information revealed. Call it torture all day long if that's what it takes to build up your self-esteem; it worked, and because it worked, CIA interrogators successfully accomplished their mission. All the pissing and pontificating about "oh, no, the dreaded T-word" won't alter the reality that the interrogators did what they needed to do to complete their mission.

Can you please provide evidence of this actionable intelligence? And don't use Dick Cheney's words. I want to see an objective source indicating that we received actionable intelligence from waterboarding terrorists. Thank you.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Can you please provide evidence of this actionable intelligence? And don't use Dick Cheney's words. I want to see an objective source indicating that we received actionable intelligence from waterboarding terrorists. Thank you.

The CIA confirmed this years ago.

Phoenix Conservative Examiner: CIA confirms waterboarding prevented 9/11-style attacks on Los Angeles
The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

What is wrong with using Cheney as a reference?
You like selective use of facts?
From someone who was actively involved.

Why did Obama, exhibiting flawless political hackery, fail to reveal the successes of these interrogations?

.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

The CIA confirmed this years ago.

Phoenix Conservative Examiner: CIA confirms waterboarding prevented 9/11-style attacks on Los Angeles


What is wrong with using Cheney as a reference?
You like selective use of facts?
From someone who was actively involved.

Why did Obama, exhibiting flawless political hackery, fail to reveal the successes of these interrogations?

.

The CIA confirmed years ago, and all you can find is a blog reference? :doh

Also, the reference mentions "these enhanced techniques." What constitutes "these" and which one of "those" made 'em spill the beans???

I love the following comment from CSUHGRAD, who replied to the blogger you quoted as irrefutable fact. I think you should especially take notice of the last sentence. ;-)

I think anyone who wasn't politically biased would take a look at what we are doing to people and say that it is torture.

On top of that, most of the time torture doesn't work. All it does it coerce mostly false information from people who are probably innocent, though some of them aren't. Most of all, we need to stop spending money on all of these wars and prisons and army bases. We can't afford it, Period.

On top of the top of that, the CIA isn't known for being truthful. Of course they would say that. They are protecting their interests. Why should be we believe them? Its the good old fashioned honor system..."trust me, Im not doing anything wrong"

Does Obama think he is being fiscally irresponsible? You know he does. HE knows what he is doing. But will he admit it? Not a chance. "its in the interest of the security of America" blah blah blah. It is the same way with the CIA and the Bush Admin. They knew what they were doing, and then they deny it. The hardcore republicans/party liners go along with it, rabidly defending it for no other reason than partisan politics and the CIA can continue doing it.

I guess if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Seriously, if both parties officially switched views on everything, I doubt actual democrats would become republicans and vice versa. If the republican party suddenly decided that Gay Marriage was a good thing, I dont think you would see too much resistance from the sheeple.
It is too easy to be convinced of your own superiority than to admit someone else has a good point, or that you were wrong.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

The CIA confirmed years ago, and all you can find is a blog reference? :doh

Also, the reference mentions "these enhanced techniques." What constitutes "these" and which one of "those" made 'em spill the beans???

I love the following comment from CSUHGRAD, who replied to the blogger you quoted as irrefutable fact. I think you should especially take notice of the last sentence. ;-)

I think anyone who wasn't politically biased would take a look at what we are doing to people and say that it is torture.

On top of that, most of the time torture doesn't work. All it does it coerce mostly false information from people who are probably innocent, though some of them aren't. Most of all, we need to stop spending money on all of these wars and prisons and army bases. We can't afford it, Period.

On top of the top of that, the CIA isn't known for being truthful. Of course they would say that. They are protecting their interests. Why should be we believe them? Its the good old fashioned honor system..."trust me, Im not doing anything wrong"

Does Obama think he is being fiscally irresponsible? You know he does. HE knows what he is doing. But will he admit it? Not a chance. "its in the interest of the security of America" blah blah blah. It is the same way with the CIA and the Bush Admin. They knew what they were doing, and then they deny it. The hardcore republicans/party liners go along with it, rabidly defending it for no other reason than partisan politics and the CIA can continue doing it.

I guess if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Seriously, if both parties officially switched views on everything, I doubt actual democrats would become republicans and vice versa. If the republican party suddenly decided that Gay Marriage was a good thing, I dont think you would see too much resistance from the sheeple.
It is too easy to be convinced of your own superiority than to admit someone else has a good point, or that you were wrong.

A blog that referenced a news site.

I guess that went over your head.
You related to aps?

Pssst. CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

It is a recent article referencing a previous article.
Is that good enough for you?

Do you lack the intellectual curiosity to find the truth?
Seems so.

Hack away. The tee is open.

.
 
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Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Since the other thread was ruined, let me jump in here. What happened to this host, was expected. Did he think it was going to be pleasant?


There is a reason it has been done, It is motivating.


He like others, will survive this ordeal, with no permanant injury, and perhaps, These poor terrorists will have some information that saves this host's or your family from being killed by this enemy.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

The CIA confirmed this years ago.

Phoenix Conservative Examiner: CIA confirms waterboarding prevented 9/11-style attacks on Los Angeles


What is wrong with using Cheney as a reference?
You like selective use of facts?
From someone who was actively involved.

Why did Obama, exhibiting flawless political hackery, fail to reveal the successes of these interrogations?

.

I asked for an objective source. examiner.com and cnsnews.com are jokes. Come on, zimmer.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

I asked for an objective source. examiner.com and cnsnews.com are jokes. Come on, zimmer.

Nancy, is that you?
I thought you were running to your ChiCom buddies for cover.

Come home Nancy, the waters are still hot.

.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Since the other thread was ruined, let me jump in here. What happened to this host, was expected. Did he think it was going to be pleasant?


There is a reason it has been done, It is motivating.


He like others, will survive this ordeal, with no permanant injury, and perhaps, These poor terrorists will have some information that saves this host's or your family from being killed by this enemy.

Yeh, sure. Name one instance of that happening outside of 24

torture-large.jpg
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Nancy, is that you?
I thought you were running to your ChiCom buddies for cover.

Come home Nancy, the waters are still hot.

.

Well that answers my question, now, doesn't it? :lol: :lol:

Thank you for confirming that I cannot take you seriously. Buh-bye. :2wave:
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Yeh, sure. Name one instance of that happening outside of 24

[imgx]http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2007/02/11/torture-large.jpg[/img]



911 never happened. :doh
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Well that answers my question, now, doesn't it? :lol: :lol:

Thank you for confirming that I cannot take you seriously. Buh-bye. :2wave:
You folks are so off the charts ignorant and blind, the only way to stick around is to have a little fun.

It's like being in a forum with a bunch of Pelosi's, Obama's and Biden's; the Junior High Mob.

I guess this won't mean a thing to you; isn't serious enough.

Coming in From the Cold: CIA Spy Calls Waterboarding Necessary But Torture - ABC News
Click Here for Part One of the Transcript with John Kiriakou.

Click Here for Part Two of the Transcript with John Kiriakou.

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 1
The Capture of Abu Zubaydah

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 2
Zubaydah says he had nothing against the United States.

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 3
Zubaydah said 9/11 was supposed to be a wake-up call to the U.S.

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 4
Zubaydah: "I would kill every American and Jew I could get my hands on."

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 5
Is Waterboarding Torture?

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 6
Waterboarding: Not Something Pretty to Watch

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 7
Enhanced Techniques: Sleep deprivation was effective, Kiriakou says.

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 8
Abu Zubaydah was completely cooperative.

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 9
Al Qaeda is always planning another major attack, Kiriakou says.

CIA Agent Speaks Out, Part 10
Waterboarding, right now, is unnecessary, Kiriakou says.

.
 
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Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Yeh, sure. Name one instance of that happening outside of 24

torture-large.jpg

Cheney has publicly asked Obama to release what these interrogations have produced. I hope he continues to hold Obama's feet to the fire, calling him out with every parsing of the facts he participates in.

Obama gave only part of the story, that which HE could use as a political weapon. He failed to reveal what was achieved.

I wonder why?

Don't you, or do you lack intellectual curiosity?

.
 
It has everything to do with the asinine Liberal assertion that our troops will be at greater risk because of the use of these methods.

You know, in my first post, I asked if Erich Mancow would magically become a Liberal to the hyperpartisans. And, of course, the hyperpartisans didn't let me down.

The subject of this thread is not about Liberal assertions, nor is it about Nancy Pelosi, nor Obama, nor the man in the moon. The subject of this thread is about how a Conservative (NOT a Liberal) volunteered to be waterboarded, how being waterboarded changed his mind, and why he now believes that waterboarding is torture.

All your Liberal bogeymen are nothing but red herrings, which make your whole argument patently dishonest.
 
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Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Well that answers my question, now, doesn't it? :lol: :lol:

Thank you for confirming that I cannot take you seriously. Buh-bye. :2wave:

You took him seriously once?

Ask him to provide evidence that torture, or waterboarding, or EITs or whatever euphemism has worked better than traditional, noncontroversial techniques. Then watch him totally fail to provide any, since there is no such evidence.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

Cheney has publicly asked Obama to release what these interrogations have produced. I hope he continues to hold Obama's feet to the fire, calling him out with every parsing of the facts he participates in.

Obama gave only part of the story, that which HE could use as a political weapon. He failed to reveal what was achieved.

I wonder why?

Don't you, or do you lack intellectual curiosity?

There is "lacking intellectual curiosity" and "head stuck in the sand ignorance". Do you know the difference between the two?

Aren't you "intellectually curious" why, after 7 1/2 years of torturing a whole lot of people (some of whom have been proven to be 100% innocent!), that Cheney only points to two (2!) documents, out of the thousands that must have been written, that he claims proves torture thwarted (prevented) terrorist attacks?

Doesn't your "intellectual curiosity" wonder why those documents weren't declassified when President Cheney had the power to do so?

Doesn't your "intellectual curiosity" ask, "Why weren't those documents leaked, like so much other classified info when it served their purposes, if they indeed had proof of this claim?"

Did your "intellectual curiosity" ever question if Cheney picked those two (only 2!) documents specifically because he knew they contained information in them that couldn't be released?

So tell me Z, where is YOUR "intellectual curiosity"?
 
I've never heard of him, though for the life of me I can't figure out why (as a conservative) I'm supposed to base my opinions around what talk show hosts have to say. Is it because liberals base theirs upon left wing web site talking points?

Personally I don't care whether or not it's torture. If they got information from Khalid Shaik Mohammed using it then that is good enough for me. If they didn't get information from him and it was done just to pass the time that also works for me. But the fact that they actually did get info is a really really nice bonus.
 
Then I would put it to you that the cannibal is just as moral in his society as the church goer is in ours.
And thereby you could also say that the islamic jihadist is moral in his society as well.

The point the "we-deny-it's-torture-until-enough-of-us-admit-it-is-and-now-our-mantra-is-we-don't-care-that-it's-torture" people seem to miss is that unless there are some basic moral issues that apply to all people then all you are left with is what a given society determines is or isn't moral.
'If torture is good enough for the worlds leader to use, then it's good enough for us to use too...'
 
Yes you are right the Dems will not bring the charges...America will and the world will demand it.

It's called doing the right thing.

I am perfectly willing to take bets that your fantastical prediction will never occur.
 
Re: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

There is "lacking intellectual curiosity" and "head stuck in the sand ignorance". Do you know the difference between the two?

Aren't you "intellectually curious" why, after 7 1/2 years of torturing a whole lot of people (some of whom have been proven to be 100% innocent!), that Cheney only points to two (2!) documents, out of the thousands that must have been written, that he claims proves torture thwarted (prevented) terrorist attacks?

Doesn't your "intellectual curiosity" wonder why those documents weren't declassified when President Cheney had the power to do so?

Doesn't your "intellectual curiosity" ask, "Why weren't those documents leaked, like so much other classified info when it served their purposes, if they indeed had proof of this claim?"

Did your "intellectual curiosity" ever question if Cheney picked those two (only 2!) documents specifically because he knew they contained information in them that couldn't be released?

So tell me Z, where is YOUR "intellectual curiosity"?

Three. As in: One, two, threeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Three people were water boarded.

Waterboarding and the special effects program of interrogation went through legal review.
Pelosi knew it and said nothing.

Holder recently blew the entire "torture" sideshow about waterboarding out of the water.

Rep. Dan] Lungren [(R., CA) and the state's former attorney general] then switched gears to a line of questioning aimed at clarifying the Obama Justice Department’s definition of torture. In one of the rare times he gave a straight answer, Holder stated at the hearing that in his view waterboarding is torture. Lundgren asked if it was the Justice Department’s position that Navy SEALS subjected to waterboarding as part of their training were being tortured.

Holder: No, it’s not torture in the legal sense because you’re not doing it with the intention of harming these people physically or mentally, all we’re trying to do is train them —

Lungren: So it’s the question of intent?

Holder: Intent is a huge part.

Lungren: So if the intent was to solicit information but not do permanent harm, how is that torture?

Holder: Well, it… uh… it… one has to look at... ah… it comes out to question of fact as one is determining the intention of the person who is administering the waterboarding. When the Communist Chinese did it, when the Japanese did it, when they did it in the Spanish Inquisition we knew then that was not a training exercise they were engaging in. They were doing it in a way that was violative of all of the statutes recognizing what torture is. What we are doing to our own troops to equip them to deal with any illegal act — that is not torture.

End of story.

We have no intent to do permanent harm.
Waterboarding is not an act of vengeance or retribution.
Waterboarding is used in dire circumstances with uncooperative individuals who could have information that could save lives.

It was used three times.
Which shows it was used in cases where getting information was critical to national security.

And it produced results quickly.

What is torturous is witnessing gobs of ignorant Americans tying the hands of those trying to protect this country, criminalizing their behavior, generally crapping on the United States, the troops and their leaders (Betrayus) and the intel services that defend them... as Pelosi has and so many Libs do.

That takes a special effort in skirting intellectual curiosity.

.
 
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