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Thread: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    I hate to break it to you, TD, but I have it on good authority, from my sister in law who served for 3 years there, that GITMO is, in fact, U.S. soil.


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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    So this is all about TD now? How ironic.
    Actually, it's about the WRONGNESS of TD.

    /smart ass mode

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    So now you reduce your comments to the lowest possible common denominator in the fashion that Lerxst wallows in? I foolish that I expected much more from you.
    Sorry. Salad tossing jokes are irresistible. I blame cops and their terrible influence on me.

  4. #334
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I hate to break it to you, TD, but I have it on good authority, from my sister in law who served for 3 years there, that GITMO is, in fact, U.S. soil.

    I hate to disagree with you, but unfortunately, my honesty requires I correct you on this: We lease Gitmo from Cuba. The Cubans claim the lease is invalid.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitmo]Guantanamo Bay Naval Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I hate to disagree with you, but unfortunately, my honesty requires I correct you on this: We lease Gitmo from Cuba. The Cubans claim the lease is invalid.

    Guantanamo Bay Naval Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Nonetheless, for the purposes of law, aren't U.S. military facilities considered U.S. soil?

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Nonetheless, for the purposes of law, aren't U.S. military facilities considered U.S. soil?
    Not sure actually. For the purposes of this discussion, I can see it being argued both ways depending on which side of the issue you are on.

    Any of our lawyer types around and know an answer for sure?

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    First, let me say that I have probably dealt more closely, and at greater personal hazard, with lives in danger and violent criminals, than you ever will.

    Secondly, I worked for a law enforcement agency, and currently train law enforcement officers. Protecting innocent civilians is one of my highest values.

    WE DO NOT MAKE THIS COUNTRY SAFER BY UNDERMINING OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES.
    For someone who claims they are in law enforcement, your ability to deal with the FACTS of this case is weak at best. It is pretty obvious you’re more guided by your emotions than the FACTS.

    Once again, we are NOT talking about “civil liberties” here. Where in any of the FACTS are we dealing with “civil liberties?” When did NON-UNIFORMED ENYMY COMBATANTS who are captured on foreign soil suddenly obtain these “civil liberties?”



    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    There is a difference between "interfering with a sleep cycle" and SHACKLING PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN ADJUDICATED GUILTY OF A CRIME, NAKED IN DIAPERS, in such bodily contortion that they are in nearly constant pain and cannot sleep for days, feed themselves, or eliminate on their own auspices.

    Let's be f'ing clear on that, shall we?
    I notice you are referring to techniques that were used illegally by a select few who then were prosecuted for it.

    Certainly you are not expecting me to fall for this Lerxst like red herring are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    There is a reason why the FBI pulled their agents away from these protocols. The FBI administration understood clearly where this was headed, and that it would potentially expose their agents to prosecution.

    The CIA does not have a track record of respecting human rights or the law, to be quite blunt.
    Once again, your lack of FACTS to support the farcical assertion that illegalities occurred and personal opinions are hardly a substitute for the facts in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    9/11 scared me, too. Many of my co-workers were stranded around the U.S. by 9/11. I took my first flight to provide training 3 weeks after 9/11. I left two children and a husband, and the flight was f'ing terrifying. I spent the week that we bombed Afghanistan for the first time on a business trip in DC.

    BUT WE DON'T DO THIS.
    This isn’t about being scared; this is about an administration and President who took their primary duty to protect American lives serious in the aftermath of 9-11.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    FEAR is not an excuse to violate the core principles this nation was founded upon. If we become like them, they've won.
    No core principles were violated. Again, your personal opinions do not make a good substitute for the FACTS. I gave you the definition of torture, and you have still not addressed how these enhanced methods can be intellectually connected to the definition of torture or the intellectual requirements of torture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I'm no liberal. .
    I never claimed you were; but you argue like one in many instances. You allow your emotional state to interfere with common sense and dealing with the FACTS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    But, there is always an excuse to capitulate to tyranny. There is today, and there were 100 years ago, and there will be 100 years from now.

    Patriots simply don't. I respect the blood of patriots that freed this nation from tyranny TOO DAMN MUCH to EVER allow partisan politics or a single political administration to justify dismantling our civil liberties.

    The actions you describe are NOT the actions of a democratic country. They are the actions of cowards who felt they were above the law.
    Now you are entering into farcical hyperbole when you suggest that the previous Administration or ANY for that matter could be “tyrannical.” Another EMOTION filled argument with little substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I have to say that I am fully culpable. I consider myself such. I voted for Bush--twice. I never believed he was capable of this. But, he was wrong, and these actions are in violation of our dearest, and most important principles.
    Once more this is emotional hyperbole and hardly substantive. I am always amused when people claim they voted for Bush as if it gives their farcical arguments some form of credibility.

    Yes, that terrible Bush; how dare him take his duty as President and protection of Americans so damned serious!

    One thing is certain though; if there is another attack, and yes they will continue to try and it only takes ONE time for success, Obama and the Democrats OWN it.

    Nothing they are doing can even be construed as in the interests of the safety of our citizens and this nation. Their actions and divisive partisan rhetoric put our citizens at great risk, our troops in great risk and the mission in Iraq and Afghanistan at great risk.

    Osama was right; the American people do not have the stomach or the will to win this fight and he will use our own internal divisive partisanship to succeed where he knows he can’t on the field of battle.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I hate to break it to you, TD, but I have it on good authority, from my sister in law who served for 3 years there, that GITMO is, in fact, U.S. soil.

    Well her "authority" would be INCORRECT then wouldn't it?

    "There is a difference between territorial jurisdiction and sovereignty," writes US District Judge Howard Matz in his decision. "The court finds that Guantanamo Bay is NOT within the sovereign territory of the United States."
    Last edited by Truth Detector; 05-28-09 at 05:22 PM.

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Once again, we are NOT talking about “civil liberties” here. Where in any of the FACTS are we dealing with “civil liberties?” When did NON-UNIFORMED ENYMY COMBATANTS who are captured on foreign soil suddenly obtain these “civil liberties?”
    Holding people without trial or charge is a violation of our core values.


    I notice you are referring to techniques that were used illegally by a select few who then were prosecuted for it.
    I notice that you are talking inaccurately here.

    Once again, your lack of FACTS to support the farcical assertion that illegalities occurred and personal opinions are hardly a substitute for the facts in this case.
    Your lack of research isn't my failure.

    Read it and weep:

    Soufan: CIA torture actually hindered our intelligence gathering | Salon News


    This isn’t about being scared; this is about an administration and President who took their primary duty to protect American lives serious in the aftermath of 9-11.
    Their primary duty is to uphold the constitution of the U.S. THAT IS THEIR PRIMARY F'ING DUTY. That's what they swore to do.

    Fail.

    No core principles were violated.
    Detention without trial or even being charged with a crime. Violation of the protocols against torture that were passed into U.S. Law under the Reagan Administration.

    Now you are entering into farcical hyperbole when you suggest that the previous Administration or ANY for that matter could be “tyrannical.” Another EMOTION filled argument with little substance.
    Holding suspects without trial, and without charge, is tyrannical. Shackling individuals, in diapers, in physical pain, without access to legal counsel, is tyrannical. I think that's sufficient.

    Yes, that terrible Bush; how dare him take his duty as President and protection of Americans so damned serious!
    His primary duty was to uphold U.S. law and the constitution. He failed to do so.


    One thing is certain though; if there is another attack, and yes they will continue to try and it only takes ONE time for success, Obama and the Democrats OWN it.
    Fear-mongering and hyperbole don't manipulate my emotions like they do yours.

    Osama was right; the American people do not have the stomach or the will to win this fight and he will use our own internal divisive partisanship to succeed where he knows he can’t on the field of battle.
    This American has the stomach to risk being attacked by terrorists in order to maintain our free, open, and democratic society. It's the risk involved with freedom.

    So tell me, who's the real coward here?

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    Re: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Well her "authority" would be INCORRECT then wouldn't it?

    "There is a difference between territorial jurisdiction and sovereignty," writes US District Judge Howard Matz in his decision. "The court finds that Guantanamo Bay is NOT within the sovereign territory of the United States."
    In December 2003, the Ninth Circuit reversed Judge Matz, and stated that he did not have the authority to hear this case.

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