Here's a test, go back and re-read the thread from the start; all the way to where you decided to blather the thread with your personal selective outrage on me.
Carry on; it is hardly any wonder you don't see the irony and hypocrisy in your posts.
Secondly, I worked for a law enforcement agency, and currently train law enforcement officers. Protecting innocent civilians is one of my highest values.
WE DO NOT MAKE THIS COUNTRY SAFER BY UNDERMINING OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES.
There is a difference between "interfering with a sleep cycle" and SHACKLING PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN ADJUDICATED GUILTY OF A CRIME, NAKED IN DIAPERS, in such bodily contortion that they are in nearly constant pain and cannot sleep for days, feed themselves, or eliminate on their own auspices.But I will refer you to someone who knows far more and knows better of what he is talking about than you or I from your article:
One came from former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden, who expressed disbelief that the administration was prepared to expose methods it might later decide it needed.
"Are you telling me that under all conditions of threat, you will never interfere with the sleep cycle of a detainee?" Hayden asked a top White House official, according to sources familiar with the exchange.
Let's be f'ing clear on that, shall we?
There is a reason why the FBI pulled their agents away from these protocols. The FBI administration understood clearly where this was headed, and that it would potentially expose their agents to prosecution.From the beginning, sleep deprivation had been one of the most important elements in the CIA's interrogation program, used to help break dozens of suspected terrorists, far more than the most violent approaches. And it is among the methods the agency fought hardest to keep.[/I]
The CIA does not have a track record of respecting human rights or the law, to be quite blunt.
NO, they don't, dude.They sound like the methods used by a Democratic Nation under assault from terrorists who desire to find methods to kill even higher numbers of our people than what occurred on 9-11.
9/11 scared me, too. Many of my co-workers were stranded around the U.S. by 9/11. I took my first flight to provide training 3 weeks after 9/11. I left two children and a husband, and the flight was f'ing terrifying. I spent the week that we bombed Afghanistan for the first time on a business trip in DC.
BUT WE DON'T DO THIS.
FEAR is not an excuse to violate the core principles this nation was founded upon. If we become like them, they've won.
I'm no liberal.
But, there is always an excuse to capitulate to tyranny. There is today, and there were 100 years ago, and there will be 100 years from now.
Patriots simply don't. I respect the blood of patriots that freed this nation from tyranny TOO DAMN MUCH to EVER allow partisan politics or a single political administration to justify dismantling our civil liberties.
The actions you describe are NOT the actions of a democratic country. They are the actions of cowards who felt they were above the law.
I have to say that I am fully culpable. I consider myself such. I voted for Bush--twice. I never believed he was capable of this. But, he was wrong, and these actions are in violation of our dearest, and most important principles.
Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-28-09 at 03:03 PM.
RESOLVED, That the American Bar Association urges t 1 hat U.S. citizens and other
2 persons lawfully present in the United States who are detained within the United States based
3 on their designation as "enemy combatants" be afforded the opportunity for meaningful
4 judicial review of their status; and
6 FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Bar Association urges that U.S. citizens
7 and other persons lawfully present in the United States who are detained within the United
8 States based on their designation as "enemy combatants" not be denied access to counsel in
9 connection with the opportunity for such review; and
11 FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Bar Association urges Congress, in
12 coordination with the Executive Branch, to establish clear standards and procedures
13 governing the designation and treatment of U.S. citizens and other persons lawfully present
14 in the United States who are detained within the United States as "enemy combatants;" and
16 FURTHER RESOLVED, That the American Bar Association urges that, in setting
17 and executing national policy regarding U.S. citizens and other persons lawfully present in
18 the United States who are detained within the United States based on their designation as
19 "enemy combatants," Congress and the Executive Branch should consider how the policy
20 adopted by the United States may affect the response of other nations to future acts of
Once more, we are NOT talking about US citizens, citizens detained in the US or people who have committed crimes on US soil.
I am fascinated that Liberals and perhaps a few others do not get this still; these are NON-Citizens caught in the battlefields of Iraq, Afghanistan and other foreign countries either in the acts of conducting terrorism, planning terrorism, in terrorist training camps or believed to be supporting terrorist activities.
Obama rightly re-constituted the Tribunals because they are the ONLY way to deal with these people. This is also the reason it would be idiotic for Obama to close down Gitmo; he knows this but cannot admit it to the rabid left that supports him.
Let me make this clear; these are not terrorists who came into OUR country and committed a crime on US soil or US Citizens.