• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

North Korea conducts nuclear test

Well, in truth, there are NO options because of the way the Liberals all over the world and in the US have treated Bush and his administration for actually doing something about Afghanistan and Iraq.

Truth Detector whining about liberals. How different.

Hint: most liberals agreed with President Bush on Afghanistan.
 
Ya'll are all missing the big picture here.

2006, NK fires a squib shot nuclear test. This was in reaction to the US stance towards the country at the time. We reacted strongly and got NK to shut it's program down.

Apparently not.
 
The writing on the wall as stated by Osama Bin Laden is this; the Western Nations have no stomach for war and will run away if they suffer even the most moderate of casualties.

The actions of the Liberal Democrats and Liberals all over the world will once more come back to haunt them.

And then he's regime would be forcibly removed from power. The last thing it wants. People have these notions that states like North Korea and Iran will act in a manner that results in their regimes' end despite years of doing everything they can to stay in power.

Yes, but only after perhaps 100,000's of lives are lost; what a GREAT policy! :roll:

I admire the eloquence with which you attack your own opinions
 
Here, let me attempt to describe the SERIOUS way in which this feckless inexperienced Community Organization of the United States along with the feckless and nearly USELESS United Community Organization Nations will respond:

"YOU BETTER STOP IT YOU MEANIES OR THIS TIME WE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY MEANT IT!!!" (Caveat: However, we will not use military force anymore and do not torture so anything you do will not have any ramifications or result in serious attempts to rein you in; we're going to beat you with a higher morality than you have ever seen before! Take that you despot you! )

NOBODY messes with the Community Organization of the UNited States unless they want to get beat with our higher moral gound. YES!

This of course will send waves of fear running down the spines of despots and dictators the world over and cause them to shake in their jack booted booties.

:rofl

Yes, but only after perhaps 100,000's of lives are lost; what a GREAT policy! :roll:

Well, in truth, there are NO options because of the way the Liberals all over the world and in the US have treated Bush and his administration for actually doing something about Afghanistan and Iraq.

The writing on the wall as stated by Osama Bin Laden is this; the Western Nations have no stomach for war and will run away if they suffer even the most moderate of casualties.

The actions of the Liberal Democrats and Liberals all over the world will once more come back to haunt them.

Had the world stood behind Bush and his Administration and we as a nation had staunchly supported the efforts our politicians VOTED for; the actions of Iran, Syria and North Korea would be very different.

But alas, we have all but criminalized Bush for being a man of action and decision and clearly told the world that we will NEVER be able to send troops anywhere in the world nor will we torture their combatants for any information that could save lives; they will all get constitutional protections.

Yes you are indeed right Obvious; NOTHING will and CAN be done because the whiney wimpy spoiled brats of today’s world know NOTHING of history or what REAL sacrifice is and will willingly give up their freedoms and morals for peaceful submission to their enemies.

Gee, here I thought it was the mainstream Liberal media who did that; but then, this is another of your "because you say so's."

I am always amused how with Liberals like you it is either Bush or the Conservatives who are always to blame; it is trite and amusing, but you would think that at some point you could parrot a new Leftist talking point; this one after all is very OLD.

:cool:

Wow....I'm looking for the relevant point hidden in the box of Cracker Jack hyperpartisan rhetoric here.
 
Last edited:
South Korea/Japan will likely start going nuclear...maybe Taiwan/Australia
 
Wow....I'm looking for the relevant point hidden in the box of Cracker Jack hyperpartisan rhetoric here.

Substance never was one of your forte's Lerxst; you're much better at trite whiney attempts to attack a posts author than you are to deal with facts and substance; was there anything else you wanted to add to your troll?

:2wave:
 
Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
The writing on the wall as stated by Osama Bin Laden is this; the Western Nations have no stomach for war and will run away if they suffer even the most moderate of casualties.

The actions of the Liberal Democrats and Liberals all over the world will once more come back to haunt them.


Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Quote:Originally Posted by obvious Child
And then he's regime would be forcibly removed from power. The last thing it wants. People have these notions that states like North Korea and Iran will act in a manner that results in their regimes' end despite years of doing everything they can to stay in power.

Yes, but only after perhaps 100,000's of lives are lost; what a GREAT policy!

I admire the eloquence with which you attack your own opinions

I honestly say that I can hardly admire your ability to misinterpret or misrepresent my points as well. Was there anything else you wanted to add to your troll?
 
South Korea/Japan will likely start going nuclear...maybe Taiwan/Australia

But Liberals think that this is okay; after all, the biggest Satan in the world right now is the evil USA who hypocritically has vast nuclear arsenals yet wants no one else to have them.

Besides, we don't need a military anymore with the great orator Obama in power; he will "reason" with these despots and convince them through peace and admiration to forgo their despotic desires.

We will soon be dismantling the evil empire's (but it is only evil when REPUBLICANS are in control mind you) military so that we can spend more on "green" initiatives and create MILLIONS of new socialist jobs for our citizens and the world will at last be green and at peace forever more!

:rofl
 
wtf?

Dude, you can think Obama has ****ty ideas all you want, but he's obviously an incredibly brilliant guy. It's not like before he was elected he was an unemployed layabout.
Umm....he went from law student to "community organizer" to politician. He's never been anything BUT a layabout.

As for his presumed brilliance--if he's so brilliant why does he make such stupid mistakes?
 
Who gives a damn about "instructing" anyone? I'm not suggesting we go to the North Koreans sounding like Mr Rogers and saying "won't you be my neighbor?" I'm suggesting we find ways to give the North Korean people the opportunity to choose between a full belly and Kim's insanity. If that means toppling Kim and accepting some other dictator in his place, I'm ok with that.

The goal is (or should be) a de-nuclearized North Korea. A democratic North Korea would be a bonus, but that's all.
And how would you propose that we "give" the North Korean people the opportunity to choose, other than by exerting military force, which certainly won't happen under our current Administration.

And what in Earth would make one think that the North Korean citizenry is aware that their leader is insane? All media is rigidly controlled in that unhappy State, so to what could they possibly compare?
 
What is far from certain, however, is which choices will accomplish that and which choices will accomplish their demise.

While that may be the case, using a nuclear weapon is clearly not going to ensure that the regime stays in power.

The concern should be less that North Korea will behave irrationally and more that North Korea will behave rationally but erroneously.

That would be the problem Sagan and Waltz have discussed. But that isn't the biggest concern. The biggest concern is an Asian nuclear arms race.
 
I do think, though, that at the time the DPRK was founded, the threat was very real, and only really collapsed after the invasion of Iraq was deemed a disaster. The Iraq invasion, though, posed a real threat, as it was the first "preemptive invasion", which basically made the threat that the US could/would invade any nation it wanted without provocation. Considering the fact that the DPRK has historically been one of the US's biggest enemies, I think that the threat, while not incredibly real or pressing, is understandable when perceived in such a way.

Eh. The US doesn't have the money nor the support from South Korea to invade. The notion that the US would sacrifice Seoul to invade North Korea is pretty much, IMO absolute evidence that the US won't attack barring North Korea using a nuke.

I don't know exactly how true this is. Last I heard aid and trade to the DPRK were being further restricted by China, South Korea and Japan, which leads me to believe that the allocation of resources to military expenditures isn't the sole reason for the food crisis in the country.

Maybe. But China is still the #1 supplier of fuel and food. Without China welfare, North Korea would rapidly lose the ability to keep the lights on.

North Korea should be far more concerned with how long China is willing to support them.
 
People also have these notions that an aggressive action by a nation will always be met with the destruction of that regime's power.

When it comes to nuclear weapons, it is without a doubt. What makes you think that the World would let an unprovoked (or frankly even provoked) nuclear attack go without punishment?

I don't have the slightest shred of doubt that China will make a move toward Taiwan at some point in the future. Does that mean they're going to lose control of their country? No, it means they're going to do it at a time when they believe the reward is worth the risk.

That I seriously doubt. China won't use military. It will, as it is now, use economic power to simply force Taiwan to accept unification. Chinese FDI into Taiwan is massive and growing. China will simply wage economic warfare and bring Taiwan to its knees without firing a shot. The military spending is more geared towards relations with US and Russia. Besides, China knows that to take Taiwan, it will either have to take massive casualties or reduce the islands to rubble, neither of which is acceptable especially given the economic warfare alternative that is relatively cheap.

Similarly, countries like NK or Iran may very well take action that you or I would consider irrational, because they may view things differently.

The flaw in your argument is you think conventional warfare is the same as nuclear warfare. We didn't let Saddam hold Kuwait with purely conventional. what makes you think that North Korea knows it can get away with a nuclear strike?

The view you're espousing is a nice one, because it would mean that no belligerent nation would ever do something risky and out of line. I think that's too much to hope for.

Incorrect. The fatal flaw in your argument is treating conventional war as the same thing as nuclear war. The two have never, ever been the same.
 
The reason why nobody will ever invade them is because they have 15,000 guns fixed on Seoul and could kill 1-3 million within 20 minutes. When you look at it from that perspective, their actions here are perfectly rational and even more dangerous.

That and the cost of invading to the benefits are tiny. An invasion and disposal of Regime would result in millions of refugees into both China and South Korea. The economic impact would be massive upon both countries as would the reconstruction of North Korea. And even if North Korea didn't have nukes, no one frankly gives a **** enough to invade.
 
Or like when Russia invaded Georgia. Or like when Israel invaded Lebanon. Or like the conflict in Darfur. Nobody in those conflicts thought that we (or anyone else) would step in and stop it, and they were right.

Fact remains that in the majority of conflicts where a perfect world would demand an international response, nobody in the real world does anything about it.

Again, you make the fatal flaw of assuming that nuclear war is the same as conventional war. The discussion here was as evident from the first post about the use of nuclear weapons in North Korea and how North Korea has uses other than actually using the weapon.
 
If they're backed into a corner with no way out, I can see it as a possibility.

So don't back them into a corner. Of course anyone or any country backed into a corner fights without reservation.

North Korea is dying, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them invade the south in a last ditch attempt at forceful reunification.

That I find questionable, especially given the cult of personality that is being cultivated for the next generation. The recent talk seems more like "we don't like the current South Korean president" more than anything else.
 
And who pray tell, would remove them from power? The United States under the administration of President Obama, who has assured us that small counties are no threat? I hardly think so.

You really think that we'd do nothing if North Korea used a nuclear weapon on someone?

No, you are seeing the first fruits of our abandonment of asstertiveness on the global stage.

Huh. I wasn't aware that the US was suppose to be the world's police. Didn't you bash Democrats for that idea?
 
They have not proven they can actually deliver the device, but NK, while rather insane, is not a country of suicidal maniacs. This was more to get "respect" and concessions from the US and others. No the real fear here, that they are working with, as they have in the past, Iran, and Iran is using NK to cover for it's own nuclear program.

As much as I give you crap for your other posts, I'm glad someone else understands this.

Weapons do not always exist for the purpose of using them in combat. A great many people here do not understand that.
 
North Korea and North VietNam are very similar in Communist growing up. They only want to control the world by dirty things such as nuclear weapon, fake money, sex and drugs selling. If you want to get troubles then touch North Korea and North VietNam.

I think they are foxier than Iran or Taliban in killing American and other freedom countries. They may make another 119 problem to American for sure. Especially, Communist North VietNam is the most liars in the world. They smile to you outside but inside, they are keeping many knives and ready kill you !
 
Uh huh, and you want rogue loons to have nukes. You just don't have any credibility.

It's not a matter of wanting, it's a matter of it's none of our business what they do.
 
And how would you propose that we "give" the North Korean people the opportunity to choose, other than by exerting military force, which certainly won't happen under our current Administration.
I already suggested one way. There are others. Put some ships stuffed with grain off the coast near Chongjin and Wonsan. Unfurl some nice big banners with something like "free food from the free world" to get people's attention. If famine is half the problem it has been in the past, that will definitely get people's attention--and when hungry people can see the food their government is keeping them from having, more than a few are likely to be upset about that.

We could take a page from the al-Qaeda playbook and do some stealth airdrops of cassette recorders with propaganda messages on them. Even North Koreans tend to be curious types, and I'd wager that someone stumbling across a bright shiny cassette recorder would be tempted to push the play button.

The main problem with fomenting rebellion is that it takes time, and as North Korea already has nuclear weapons, time may not exactly be something the rest of the world has in abundance. Still, even if the end result is little more than to inspire one of Kim's inner circle to stage a coup, if we change a psychopathic dictator for a merely greedy one we have made progress.

However one goes about it, the proximate objective needs to be regime change--but without external intervention. Popular uprising or palace coup is immaterial. Containing nuclear proliferation is easier with Kim out of power than in power, so however foreign policy towards North Korea is executed, getting Kim out of power needs to be a primary objective.

And what in Earth would make one think that the North Korean citizenry is aware that their leader is insane? All media is rigidly controlled in that unhappy State, so to what could they possibly compare?
They don't know he's insane. That much is a given. This is not about what they know, but what they believe. Right now, they believe Kim is some mythic leader who is protecting them and their way of life. We don't need to persuade them Kim is insane, we need to undercut their belief in him as a leader.
 
Back
Top Bottom