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75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

It's actually pretty simple Dan. Call your local VA, ask about charity organizations that help vets. Call said organization to help. I am proud to do charity work with vets, and even though I cannot afford to contribute money, I still do some good.

By the way, where was all this patriotism in the 80's and 90's when I was in the service, and knew far too many service families that had to swallow their pride and get food stamps just to be able to afford to feed their families. None of this started under Clinton, it extends back at least to President Bush the elder, and probably Reagan, and maybe before that. If it was not for people like Senator John Glenn really fighting for soldiers, it would have been worse.

After 9/11 we started seeing an awefull lot of flags, seeing buttons and lapel pins, lots of good stuff stated about our troops. Well, I hate to tell those of you who are that type of patriot, but you ain't no patriot at all. A flag from your car antenna that probably came from China does not make you a patriot, it makes you a consumer. A "God bless out troops" pin does not make you a patriot. If you care about our troops, do something.

Sorry Dan, but you brought up a huge pet peeve of mine.
 
danarhea said:
75% may have a favorable opinion of the US military, but some of them are clearly hypocrites, who only put up yellow ribbons, and do little else. Right now, there are more than 150,000 vets living in the streets, and IMHO, that is a crime. Where is the support for them? Oh, that's right. Once they are used up, they are discarded like yesterday's garbage. This started under Clinton, continued under Bush, and Obama does not seem to be acting any differently. It is easy to say "I support the troops", when talk and not actions guides one's ideology. So how about ALL of this 75% raise a little hell with the government, until the government finally decides to do the right thing and REALLY support the troops? Supporting the troops is more than just a slogan to be bandied about by hypocritical politicians who don't really give a damn about the sacrifice our soldiers make for this nation. After all, if they DID give a damn, they really WOULD support the troops, along with our vets.
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I have been thinking about this lately myself. Do you think the hardship Military personnel face when transitioning to civilian life has to do any with the education and skills received while in the Military?

I have friends recently out of the Military who find themselves lacking the education and work experience to get a job other then one that of a trade or blue collar, which generall doesn't require work experience or college education. One friend is trying to get into corporate marketing at 26 and basically has to go to college and start from the ground up with all the 20 years olds.

Of course this isn't all cases. I have many Military friends also that are thriving professionally in civilian life. Through many of them are in general management and/or sales jobs.
 
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Where was all this patriotism when our troops came home from Nam and got spit on? No parades for them!
 
Kali said:
Where was all this patriotism when our troops came home from Nam and got spit on? No parades for them!
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You're really not helping liberals on this one.
 
Gibberish said:
I have been thinking about this lately myself. Do you think the hardship Military personnel face when transitioning to civilian life has to do any with the education and skills received while in the Military?

I have friends recently out of the Military who find themselves lacking the education and work experience to get a job other then one that of a trade or blue collar, which generall doesn't require work experience or college education. One friend is trying to get into corporate marketing at 26 and basically has to go to college and start from the ground up with all the 20 years olds.

Of course this isn't all cases. I have many Military friends also that are thriving professionally in civilian life. Through many of them are in general management and/or sales jobs.
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There are(or at least where when I was in) pretty good opportunities to get an education and document skills. The problem with this is in explaining to some 20 year old that he should use his free time to do this. During Navy deployments, you can take actual college courses on ship. Not many, but there a few basic classes. When not deployed, the government will basically pay for any classes you choose to attend. The issue is getting people to do it.

Now, this has little to do with the homeless problem. The homeless problem, as I understand it, results much more from the problems of making the emotional adjustment to civilian life. This adjustment is shockingly large and difficult. I think the first thing that needs to be done is more work preparing people in their last year of service for the adjustments and changes in life. Unfortunately, that is much easier said than done.
 
Degreez said:
Even though I'm a harsh critic of Israeli policy, you just pointed out how little knowledge you actually have on this subject and looks like you were looking for somewhere to spill your inaccuracies.
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So Orthadox jews and Israeli Arabs do not hide behind their race and religion to weasel out of military service?
 
jamesrage said:
So Orthadox jews and Israeli Arabs do not hide behind their race and religion to weasel out of military service?
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Yeah!!!! The government always knows best! **** people for not being willing to die for a cause that is not their own and doesn't make their lives better!
 
Tucker Case said:
Yeah!!!! The government always knows best! **** people for not being willing to die for a cause that is not their own and doesn't make their lives better!
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I could be wrong but isn't Israel terrorist target capital of the world and surrounded by nations that want to see them wipe off the map and most of the Israelis jews are either immigrants or children or grand children of immigrants and some of whom carry dual citizenship with other countries. SO how on earth can they hide behind their religion or race to weasel out of military service?
 
jamesrage said:
I could be wrong but isn't Israel terrorist target capital of the world and surrounded by nations that want to see them wipe off the map and most of the Israelis jews are either immigrants or children or grand children of immigrants and some of whom carry dual citizenship with other countries. SO how on earth can they hide behind their religion or race to weasel out of military service?
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They are fundamentally against violence?

They think that violence breeds more violence?

They feel that any type of killing is an affront to God and will lead them into an eternity of hell?

They disagree with the tactics used by their government?

They have free will?

They have reasons of their own that I have not thought of off th etop of my head?
 
Tucker Case said:
They are fundamentally against violence?

They think that violence breeds more violence?
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Seeing how they live in terrorist target capital of the world and surrounded by hostile nations there are in a violence magnet, hey should be obligated to be drafted just like everyone else there.

They feel that any type of killing is an affront to God and will lead them into an eternity of hell?
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That is the biggest load of bull**** they use. Have you read any of the books of the bible? Does Joshua ring a bell?


They disagree with the tactics used by their government?
They have free will?
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Since many of them have dual citizenship then they should exercise that free will and quit mooching off the military service of their fellow country men and move to somewhere else.


They have reasons of their own that I have not thought of off th etop of my head?
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They are moochers who hide behind religion and race to weasel out of military service while relying on everyone else's military service to defend them in a nation that is constantly under threat of hostile countries and terrorist attacks.
 
jamesrage said:
Seeing how they live in terrorist target capital of the world and surrounded by hostile nations there are in a violence magnet, hey should be obligated to be drafted just like everyone else there.
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Perhaps they think the policies of Israel exacerbate the situation?



That is the biggest load of bull**** they use. Have you read any of the books of the bible? Does Joshua ring a bell?
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Perhaps their interpretation is different from yours.

They disagree with the tactics used by their government?
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Don't you disagree with tactics taken by your government? Doesn't everyone? Don't tell me you think the government is always right. There are plenty of posts of yours around here that state the exact opposite.




Since many of them have dual citizenship then they should exercise that free will and quit mooching off the military service of their fellow country men and move to somewhere else.
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Perhaps they want to "improve" their chosen nation by turning it's hand from violence?


They are moochers who hide behind religion and race to weasel out of military service while relying on everyone else's military service to defend them in a nation that is constantly under threat of hostile countries and terrorist attacks.
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That's an interesting hypothesis. How do you define "mooching"?
 
Tucker Case said:
Perhaps they think the policies of Israel exacerbate the situation?
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Its seems that out of all the failed peace processes it was because the Palestinians broke their end of the deal.




Perhaps their interpretation is different from yours.
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It is dishonest to claim the Lord is against violence and defending your nation considering the wars and various capital punishments in the old testament. If soldiers today did what was done in the wars in the old testament they would be tried for war crimes.

Don't you disagree with tactics taken by your government? Doesn't everyone? Don't tell me you think the government is always right. There are plenty of posts of yours around here that state the exact opposite.
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Disagreeing is one thing, mooching off the fact that the majority of your fellow countrymen have answered the call the duty while you hide behind race or religion to weasel out of military service is a completely different thing.




Perhaps they want to "improve" their chosen nation by turning it's hand from violence?
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Here I know lets hold our breath and hope the Iranians, Palestinians,Lebanese and everyone decided to crack down on terrorist and allow Israel the same right to exist as they do.


That's an interesting hypothesis. How do you define "mooching"?
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According to urban dictionary "mooching" is defined as leeching and or taking advantage of another person. So those weaseling our of military service by hiding behind race or religion are moochers mooching off the service of their fellow countrymen and women.
 
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jamesrage said:
Its seems that out of all the failed peace processes it was because the Palestinians broke their end of the deal.
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What it seems like to you is irrelevant. What matters in regards to these people's opinions is what it seems like to them. Their views are what count when discussing their will to "serve", not yours.


It is dishonest to claim the lord is against violence and defending your nation considering the wars and capital punishment in the old testament.
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There is that one commandment, which, depending upon translations, states "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder". If one believes the "Thou shalt not kill" version, then all the other stuff found in the bible is superseded by the commandment, no?


Disagreeing is one thing,mooching off the fact that the majority of your fellow countrymen have answered the call the duty while you hide behind race or religion to weasel out of military service is a completely different thing.
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I wish more Germans in WWII had "weaseled" out of their "duties" for moral reasons.

If you believe something is morally wrong, you don't do it. Simple as that.


Here I know lets hold our breath and hope the Iranians, Palestinians,Lebanese and everyone decided to crack down on terrorist and allow Israel the same right to exist as they do.
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You say that as though violence has been working at making them acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

Also, non-violence =/= inaction. To suggest that it is would be a false dichotomy.


According to urban dictionary "mooching" is defined as leeching and or taking advantage of another person. So those weaseling our of military service by hiding behind race or religion are moochers mooching off the service of their fellow countrymen and women.
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What are they leeching?

How are they "taking advantage" of anyone?

I know you "say" they are mooching, but I don't see it. Perhaps you can explain the position so that it actually makes sense to me by stating what exactly they are taking from the other people.

If anything, the fact that their taxes help pay for the military would imply that as non-members, they are being leeched upon. The fact that they disagree would mean that they are being taken advantage of instead of the other way around.

I mean it's simple calculation. Right now all I see are losses for these people by way of taxation for the military. What are their "gains" that make them "leeches"?
 
Tucker Case said:
What it seems like to you is irrelevant. What matters in regards to these people's opinions is what it seems like to them. Their views are what count when discussing their will to "serve", not yours.




There is that one commandment, which, depending upon translations, states "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder". If one believes the "Thou shalt not kill" version, then all the other stuff found in the bible is superseded by the commandment, no?




I wish more Germans in WWII had "weaseled" out of their "duties" for moral reasons.

If you believe something is morally wrong, you don't do it. Simple as that.
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Nothing more than pathetic excuses for weaseling out of military service while the huge vast majority of your fellow countrymen are drafted.



You say that as though violence has been working at making them acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
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I am saying that given Israel's situation they require every able bodied man and women to defend them. Hiding behind race and religion to weasel out of service when the majority of people do not get to use crock of **** excuses makes them moochers.

Also, non-violence =/= inaction. To suggest that it is would be a false dichotomy.
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In this case these people are trying to claim God is against violence, when considering their holy books this belief that God is against violence is contradicted. Therefore it is not a false dichotomy.

What are they leeching?
I know you "say" they are mooching, but I don't see it. Perhaps you can explain the position so that it actually makes sense to me by stating what exactly they are taking from the other people.


How are they "taking advantage" of anyone?
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Its been explained many times you are being willfully ignorant. These moochers are taking advantage of the fact they can weasel out of military service while their country is being attacked. IF they have a problem killing people who threaten their country I am sure they can serve a noncombat role.

If anything, the fact that their taxes help pay for the military would imply that as non-members, they are being leeched upon. The fact that they disagree would mean that they are being taken advantage of instead of the other way around.
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The vast majority of other people are serving in their nation's military as well as paying taxes. Those who weasel out of service are still mooching. What is Israel's budget and what percentage of every person's taxes go to the military?
 
God Bless all the men and women that have donned a US Military uniform.

It is their sacrifice and dedication that has allowed us and hundreds of millions of others to live in relative freedom, peace and prosperity.

75% is too low.
One wonders, what goes through the gray matter of the 25%.
How did they get "there"?



.
 
zimmer said:
God Bless all the men and women that have donned a US Military uniform.

It is their sacrifice and dedication that has allowed us and hundreds of millions of others to live in relative freedom, peace and prosperity.

75% is too low.
One wonders, what goes through the gray matter of the 25%.
How did they get "there"?



.
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Considering only 17% of the population has served, I'm happy with the 75%.
 
jamesrage said:
Nothing more than pathetic excuses for weaseling out of military service while the huge vast majority of your fellow countrymen are drafted.
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So your morality is dependent upon what big brother govenrment tells you? Duty overrides morality for you?

In truth nothing is more pathetic than the cowards who use "I'm just following orders" as an excuse for doing that which they find immoral.

If one's orders are to do something against your morality, yet they do it anyway, they are nothing more than cowards.

Because they believe in their heart of hearts that they are doing wrong yet they are too ****ing cowardly to say "no" and accept the consequences.

(See I can make irrational and illogical comments based on emotion without backing them up as well)

I am saying that given Israel's situation they require every able bodied man and women to defend them. Hiding behind race and religion to weasel out of service when the majority of people do not get to use crock of **** excuses makes them moochers.
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Does Israel prevent people from converting to religions that hold these views? If not, then nothing is prevented of anyone who chooses to serve.


In this case these people are trying to claim God is against violence, when considering their holy books this belief that God is against violence is contradicted. Therefore it is not a false dichotomy.
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:confused:

This actually makes no sense whatsoever in response to what I said. You are pretending that non-violence is the same as inaction when it isn't. That's the false dichotomy.

What does that have to do with their religious beliefs?




Its been explained many times you are being willfully ignorant. These moochers are taking advantage of the fact they can weasel out of military service while their country is being attacked.
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You haven't explained anything. You've stated, ad nauseum, your opinion that they are moochers without explaining what they are gaining. What are they taking (see: LEECHING) from those who serve.

What am I being "willfully ignorant" of? The fact is, I am not aware of what they are leeching off of those who serve. For them to be moochers, tehy need to be taking advantage of someone (not something) or LEECHING (as in stealing) soemthing from someone.

So far, you haven't given a single example of anything that is being taken from those who serve.

IF they have a problem killing people who threaten their country I am sure they can serve a noncombat role.
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Such working to aid those who have been injured in attacks? Giving to charities that assist displaced families? Running charities and such?

How do you know that even though they aren't in the military they aren't doing these things?

Why is it only "valid" if it has the military name?

Is being in the military the only way to perform your "duties" as a citizen?

that makes me wonder, is our "duty" to our fellow citizen, or is it to the government?

Personally, I would say the duty is to the fellow people, and not the government. But of course, that's probably because I'm not a socialist.

The vast majority of other people are serving in their nation's military as well as paying taxes. Those who weasel out of service are still mooching. What is Israel's budget and what percentage of every person's taxes go to the military?
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What percentage of the militaries income comes from taxes? I'd guess 100%.
 
Tucker Case said:
What percentage of the militaries income comes from taxes? I'd guess 100%.
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True. It was very disconcerting when I got my first military paycheck, looking at the federal withholding, and realizing that I was paying my own salary. Sadly, I couldn't talk myself into giving me a raise.
 
Moon said:
True. It was very disconcerting when I got my first military paycheck, looking at the federal withholding, and realizing that I was paying my own salary. Sadly, I couldn't talk myself into giving me a raise.
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On a plus side, when in a war zone, no federal taxes!
 
Redress said:
On a plus side, when in a war zone, no federal taxes!
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Which is basically just a pay increase.

Personally, I don't think military people should be taxed. They should be allowed to keep the entirety of their salaries.

In fact, I think during times of combat, all politicians should receive a pay decrease and all military personnel should get a pay increase. A big pay increase. It sickens me that politicians make more than those on the front lines.
 
Tucker Case said:
Which is basically just a pay increase.

Personally, I don't think military people should be taxed. They should be allowed to keep the entirety of their salaries.

In fact, I think during times of combat, all politicians should receive a pay decrease and all military personnel should get a pay increase. A big pay increase. It sickens me that politicians make more than those on the front lines.
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I like that!
 
Lerxst said:
For combat arms you don't need a year to train someone, basic and advanced individual training can be done in four to six months. The rest is done at the unit level.

Here is the problem with conscripted service. Those who are forced to serve against their will will compromise the effectiveness of our military. In the service, as I'm sure you realize, we depend upon the entirety of those serving, down to the man and woman, to fulfill their job duties to the utmost of their ability. It's even more important now in our downsized, technology heavy military. We don't just fill grunt platoons anymore. We are talking joint operations/combined arms/land, air, sea, space battle doctrines. We need motivated, dedicated professionals. Not people who are mandated to show up whether they want to be there or not. Those folks are quite likely to perform well below their potential simply because their mentality will be adversely affected by their forced servitude.

I very much appreciate your position on this, and I've thought over the idea of the draft and conscription quite a bit. I've studied it quite a bit and simply can't find any redeeming factors in it. At least in what has been presented.
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Having retired from the AirForce my interaction with the draftees was limited to the rare dealing with the Army troops over in Vietnam who were assigned to watch our perimeter.

So you say that you guys can do basic and advanced infantry training in about 6 months? ok but you say that unit level training completes it. So how many months do you Army guys take before you place someone in combat ? In the AirForce where we do more technical activities on the average we don't allow someone to be individualling responsible for their system on an aircraft until at least a year of various training goes down.

I do understand what you are saying about a volunteer being more motivated but from what I understand that at least up through Vietnam War there didn't seem to be a detectable diference in performance between draftees and regular in combat. No sure where I heard that.
 
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