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Thread: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

  1. #91
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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What it seems like to you is irrelevant. What matters in regards to these people's opinions is what it seems like to them. Their views are what count when discussing their will to "serve", not yours.




    There is that one commandment, which, depending upon translations, states "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder". If one believes the "Thou shalt not kill" version, then all the other stuff found in the bible is superseded by the commandment, no?




    I wish more Germans in WWII had "weaseled" out of their "duties" for moral reasons.

    If you believe something is morally wrong, you don't do it. Simple as that.
    Nothing more than pathetic excuses for weaseling out of military service while the huge vast majority of your fellow countrymen are drafted.



    You say that as though violence has been working at making them acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
    I am saying that given Israel's situation they require every able bodied man and women to defend them. Hiding behind race and religion to weasel out of service when the majority of people do not get to use crock of **** excuses makes them moochers.

    Also, non-violence =/= inaction. To suggest that it is would be a false dichotomy.
    In this case these people are trying to claim God is against violence, when considering their holy books this belief that God is against violence is contradicted. Therefore it is not a false dichotomy.



    What are they leeching?
    I know you "say" they are mooching, but I don't see it. Perhaps you can explain the position so that it actually makes sense to me by stating what exactly they are taking from the other people.


    How are they "taking advantage" of anyone?
    Its been explained many times you are being willfully ignorant. These moochers are taking advantage of the fact they can weasel out of military service while their country is being attacked. IF they have a problem killing people who threaten their country I am sure they can serve a noncombat role.

    If anything, the fact that their taxes help pay for the military would imply that as non-members, they are being leeched upon. The fact that they disagree would mean that they are being taken advantage of instead of the other way around.

    The vast majority of other people are serving in their nation's military as well as paying taxes. Those who weasel out of service are still mooching. What is Israel's budget and what percentage of every person's taxes go to the military?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #92
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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    God Bless all the men and women that have donned a US Military uniform.

    It is their sacrifice and dedication that has allowed us and hundreds of millions of others to live in relative freedom, peace and prosperity.

    75% is too low.
    One wonders, what goes through the gray matter of the 25%.
    How did they get "there"?



    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  3. #93
    Why so serious?

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    God Bless all the men and women that have donned a US Military uniform.

    It is their sacrifice and dedication that has allowed us and hundreds of millions of others to live in relative freedom, peace and prosperity.

    75% is too low.
    One wonders, what goes through the gray matter of the 25%.
    How did they get "there"?



    .
    Considering only 17% of the population has served, I'm happy with the 75%.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Nothing more than pathetic excuses for weaseling out of military service while the huge vast majority of your fellow countrymen are drafted.
    So your morality is dependent upon what big brother govenrment tells you? Duty overrides morality for you?

    In truth nothing is more pathetic than the cowards who use "I'm just following orders" as an excuse for doing that which they find immoral.

    If one's orders are to do something against your morality, yet they do it anyway, they are nothing more than cowards.

    Because they believe in their heart of hearts that they are doing wrong yet they are too ****ing cowardly to say "no" and accept the consequences.

    (See I can make irrational and illogical comments based on emotion without backing them up as well)

    I am saying that given Israel's situation they require every able bodied man and women to defend them. Hiding behind race and religion to weasel out of service when the majority of people do not get to use crock of **** excuses makes them moochers.
    Does Israel prevent people from converting to religions that hold these views? If not, then nothing is prevented of anyone who chooses to serve.


    In this case these people are trying to claim God is against violence, when considering their holy books this belief that God is against violence is contradicted. Therefore it is not a false dichotomy.


    This actually makes no sense whatsoever in response to what I said. You are pretending that non-violence is the same as inaction when it isn't. That's the false dichotomy.

    What does that have to do with their religious beliefs?




    Its been explained many times you are being willfully ignorant. These moochers are taking advantage of the fact they can weasel out of military service while their country is being attacked.
    You haven't explained anything. You've stated, ad nauseum, your opinion that they are moochers without explaining what they are gaining. What are they taking (see: LEECHING) from those who serve.

    What am I being "willfully ignorant" of? The fact is, I am not aware of what they are leeching off of those who serve. For them to be moochers, tehy need to be taking advantage of someone (not something) or LEECHING (as in stealing) soemthing from someone.

    So far, you haven't given a single example of anything that is being taken from those who serve.

    IF they have a problem killing people who threaten their country I am sure they can serve a noncombat role.
    Such working to aid those who have been injured in attacks? Giving to charities that assist displaced families? Running charities and such?

    How do you know that even though they aren't in the military they aren't doing these things?

    Why is it only "valid" if it has the military name?

    Is being in the military the only way to perform your "duties" as a citizen?

    that makes me wonder, is our "duty" to our fellow citizen, or is it to the government?

    Personally, I would say the duty is to the fellow people, and not the government. But of course, that's probably because I'm not a socialist.

    The vast majority of other people are serving in their nation's military as well as paying taxes. Those who weasel out of service are still mooching. What is Israel's budget and what percentage of every person's taxes go to the military?
    What percentage of the militaries income comes from taxes? I'd guess 100%.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Why so serious?

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What percentage of the militaries income comes from taxes? I'd guess 100%.
    True. It was very disconcerting when I got my first military paycheck, looking at the federal withholding, and realizing that I was paying my own salary. Sadly, I couldn't talk myself into giving me a raise.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    True. It was very disconcerting when I got my first military paycheck, looking at the federal withholding, and realizing that I was paying my own salary. Sadly, I couldn't talk myself into giving me a raise.
    On a plus side, when in a war zone, no federal taxes!

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    On a plus side, when in a war zone, no federal taxes!
    Which is basically just a pay increase.

    Personally, I don't think military people should be taxed. They should be allowed to keep the entirety of their salaries.

    In fact, I think during times of combat, all politicians should receive a pay decrease and all military personnel should get a pay increase. A big pay increase. It sickens me that politicians make more than those on the front lines.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    On a plus side, when in a war zone, no federal taxes!
    That's true but back in the Vietnam days no tax on nothing much still came out to nothing much. lol
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Which is basically just a pay increase.

    Personally, I don't think military people should be taxed. They should be allowed to keep the entirety of their salaries.

    In fact, I think during times of combat, all politicians should receive a pay decrease and all military personnel should get a pay increase. A big pay increase. It sickens me that politicians make more than those on the front lines.
    I like that!

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    Re: 75% Have Favorable Opinion of U.S. Military This Memorial Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    For combat arms you don't need a year to train someone, basic and advanced individual training can be done in four to six months. The rest is done at the unit level.

    Here is the problem with conscripted service. Those who are forced to serve against their will will compromise the effectiveness of our military. In the service, as I'm sure you realize, we depend upon the entirety of those serving, down to the man and woman, to fulfill their job duties to the utmost of their ability. It's even more important now in our downsized, technology heavy military. We don't just fill grunt platoons anymore. We are talking joint operations/combined arms/land, air, sea, space battle doctrines. We need motivated, dedicated professionals. Not people who are mandated to show up whether they want to be there or not. Those folks are quite likely to perform well below their potential simply because their mentality will be adversely affected by their forced servitude.

    I very much appreciate your position on this, and I've thought over the idea of the draft and conscription quite a bit. I've studied it quite a bit and simply can't find any redeeming factors in it. At least in what has been presented.
    Having retired from the AirForce my interaction with the draftees was limited to the rare dealing with the Army troops over in Vietnam who were assigned to watch our perimeter.

    So you say that you guys can do basic and advanced infantry training in about 6 months? ok but you say that unit level training completes it. So how many months do you Army guys take before you place someone in combat ? In the AirForce where we do more technical activities on the average we don't allow someone to be individualling responsible for their system on an aircraft until at least a year of various training goes down.

    I do understand what you are saying about a volunteer being more motivated but from what I understand that at least up through Vietnam War there didn't seem to be a detectable diference in performance between draftees and regular in combat. No sure where I heard that.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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