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Thread: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    Your rationale concerning the natural inclination of our species is very similar to what I posted earlier and I completely agree. Do you think that given the current population that a society's survival is an issue when deciding whether to send women in to combat? Or that this is just a left over instinctual trait from the past?
    Depends on which society we are talking about. In most Western countries, where birthrates are already declining, within relatively safe conditions, I don't think its wise to send females into combat roles. If, in a situation, where the society has its back against the wall, like in the case of Israelis, every round that can be potentially fired down range is needed. You have to balance the risk/reward as you do in any military scenario. You have to balance long term sustainability, with immediate survival. Base your answer on that, is what I say.
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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Do you have any reason to suggest that "in general terms" women are incapable of carrying a 14 pound weapon?


    History has denied women the ability to be present in combat role so history has shown nothing in this regard.
    I recall having to carry more than a 14 lb weapon. Things like ammunition, SAPI plates, grenades, kevlar (helmet), medkit, etc also add to the weight.

    Also, a full loaded Squad Automatic Weapon does not weigh 14 lbs, it weighs 22 lbs. So if I am grasping what you are saying, should they only be limited to a rifleman's role in combat and not that of a support gunner?

    This quote and study also gives some credibility beyond my opinion

    "Few serious armies use women in combat roles. Israel, which drafts most of its young women and uses them in all kinds of military work, has learned from experience to take them out of combat zones. Tests show that few women have the upper-body strength required for combat tasks. Keeping combat forces all male would not be discriminatory, as were earlier racial segregation schemes in the military, because men and women are different both physically and psychologically," said the Feb. 5, 1990, National Review.
    Last edited by Polynikes; 05-24-09 at 04:23 PM.
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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Is what Tashah was describing an IDF parallel? Foot Patrols, but not Close Combat? More input from Tashah will be required.
    Some clarity is probably needed here. Technically speaking, IDF females are not assigned directly to attacking units or platoons. But the flow of modern warfare is so rapid that combat lanes morph and hot zones can easily become blurred and/or indistinct. Oftentimes also, a female IDF specialist will be embedded with a combat brigade.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Some clarity is probably needed here. Technically speaking, IDF females are not assigned directly to attacking units or platoons. But the flow of modern warfare is so rapid that combat lanes morph and hot zones can easily become blurred and/or indistinct. Oftentimes also, a female IDF specialist will be embedded with a combat brigade.
    Same thing is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq with US female troops.
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    Thumbs up Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes it is, I figured it was common sense.
    Well, it certainly is a "common" mistake. The fact that there are a few female fighter pilots, is not evidence for the assertion that females are "stronger combat pilots".

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If women have better hand eye it would stand to reason they would make better pilots.
    That might be a good guess. What a scientist would do, would be to test that theory, rather than assume it was true. Thats why proof, is a little harder to come by than "common" sense.

    More than capable, women consistently test better than men in training exercises. "I would recommend that women are put into fighter cockpits on the basis of performance," said Group Captain Chetan Bali, who heads up the faculty of flying at India's Air Force Academy.
    Now here you are actually giving me what I requested, but I would still like to see the statistics themselves, and how real physiological differences between sexes, like tolerance to High G, are accounted for. If she's great, but passes out at 9 g when most males don't, then one High G dogfight move erases that greatness does it not ?

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Same thing is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq with US female troops.
    Can't be. There is an out of date study showing that women in combat is bad, so the fact that women are in combat, and our combat forces are incredibly effective, must be some sort of anomaly.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Every IDF female conscript goes through six months of basic training. They are issued their M-16 on day 1 and it stays with them 24/7. In the IDF, almost all weapons instructors are females. As a matter of fact, the IDF has discovered that females are better suited as snipers also.

    Last edited by Tashah; 05-24-09 at 04:43 PM. Reason: added pic

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Now here you are actually giving me what I requested, but I would still like to see the statistics themselves, and how real physiological differences between sexes, like tolerance to High G, are accounted for. If she's great, but passes out at 9 g when most males don't, then one High G dogfight move erases that greatness does it not ?
    You don't know much of anything about combat jets do you?

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    On top of that, you have the guts to discuss the whole topic and not myopically focus on one thing to then tout a useless solution.

    Kudos to Credibility
    Hmmm, let's see, I stated I did not know enough to comment on everything, but one point was easily solved. You keep on talking about stuff you clearly do not know about. Interesting differences there.

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    Question Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Some clarity is probably needed here. Technically speaking, IDF females are not assigned directly to attacking units or platoons.
    Is it your personal opinion that the IDF maintains that policy largely due to the aforementioned study / review of the '48 conflict ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    But the flow of modern warfare is so rapid that combat lanes morph and hot zones can easily become blurred and/or indistinct. Oftentimes also, a female IDF specialist will be embedded with a combat brigade.
    Understood, by the IDF and the British Armed Forces, and me

    But do recall, that the OP is specifically talking about whether or not to assign females directly to attacking units.

    U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

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