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Thread: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Both of these happened extensively in Kuwait in '91, so I think your assertion is hogwash.
    Really. Why don't you provide some examples of U.S. soldiers committing such actions and escaping punishment then.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    What we have is proof that women can handle themselves in a combat situation thanks to Iraq not having a front line (Jessica Lynch being a disgrace to women). Women have had to defend themselves on plenty occassions, due to convoys being attacked with IED's and such. But this is not the same thing as sending a woman into a fight.

    Units that have women in them also have the logistics to accomodate them. The hygiene for women entails a bit more than it does for a man. Also, in Infantry units, the ability to move fast matters, which means that it cannot carry the types of equipment found in headquarters units such as shower units, privacy shelters, and medical specialties.

    People always jump to the upper body strength or the inability of men to play nice with girls in lonely, desperate situations. Of course, there is a measure of truth to such things just like there is truth to the fact that "brotherhood" and mission seems to always take a back seat whenever the brotherhood feels that they have to focus on being big brother protectorates instead of mission accomplishers at all costs. In other words, when it comes time to kick a door in and clear a room, no man is going to send the girl in first, which means that demoralization, resentment, and unfairness would weaken the unit.

    But with these obvious arguments, there is a very real logisitic issue.
    Gunny, outside of the logistics issue, which is really minor, your list reads very similar to what I heard when "don't ask, don't tell" was first suggested, and when allowing blacks to serve in integrated units was first proposed. Blacks and gays both serve in the military now, to no loss of unit ability.

    Change is hard, and I remember when I served not particularly wanting change. At that time, women where rarely allowed on carriers, but now serve on them with some regularity. Surprise, it works, and works well. Also, not surprisingly, alot of the same arguments you give where used against women being allowed to serve on combat ships.

    It is time to question assumptions. Women have proved, time and again, able to handle themselves in combat, and having women in combat has yet to result in unsolvable problems.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post

    Lugging around a gun is so difficult? Jeeze Louise. I have an M-4 and a pup-gun and neither is as heavy as my purse.
    Don't take this wrong...but I found that statement a major turnon.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Honestly, the combat load for an infantry can be quite a bit beyond what the average civilian could carry, regardless of gender. However, the way to deal with that is to set physical requirements, not blanket gender bans. You can find women capable of carrying a full combat load just going to home depot.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Really. Why don't you provide some examples of U.S. soldiers committing such actions and escaping punishment then.
    U.S. Soldiers are not the only ones on earth, and as we can see, you did not limit your hogwash assertion to any one nation . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Considering that rape and plunder are not longer accepted as a normal consequence of Invasion, it is safe to say that men have changed the way the operate in war.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    U.S. Soldiers are not the only ones on earth, and as we can see, you did not limit your hogwash assertion to any one nation . . .
    I assumed you would be able figure out that I was referring to the U.K./U.S. since we were discussing the role of women serving those two countries, but clearly you were wrong.

    Let clarify my statement just for you. Although rape and plunder were once condoned as typical behavior for men at war, in certain countries times have changed. The U.K. armed forces now will actively punish soldiers who loot conquered nations or sexually assault women. This is a clear indication that the social behavior of men at war has changed, mirroring general changes in society at large.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    Ministers are to consider changing the rules limiting women's combat roles in the armed forces, the BBC has learned.

    BBC NEWS | UK | Women's front-line role reviewed

    .
    Not a good move in my opinion. Seems like a further move to total war ideals. By keeping women from such roles, to me seems like a small respite from a total war mentality. Your saying in effect one section of the community has some sort of protection from the all encompassing needs of the military, whether or not having women in combat roles actually is good for military efficiency. It seems to me like also like a further blurring of distinctions for the sake of politically correct egalitarianism, often with vague promises that "it'll turn out alright" or "change must come".

    One notes that it was such societies as the USSR and Communist China as well as Israel, societies of revolution and/or total war footings that are most known for the liberal use of women as soldiers.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 05-25-09 at 05:18 AM.
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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Oh yes of course women should be permitted to partisipate in front-line combat.

    Women performed all the jobs men did during WWII - factory workers etc and even the Russian allowed women to fight on the front line - some very good female tank commanders.

    I don't really buy into the weaker-sex thing - even if there were one or two activities that women might not be able to physically perform - those could be taken into account, firing a rifle at a enemy combatant isn't one of them ....

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There are plenty, large quantities of examples of women caught in front line situations. There is almost certainly sufficient data to study on the subject. There is no need to experiment. Any other objections?
    Once again it is important that you understand the difference of an IED hitting your convoy, the convoy stopping and everyone taking up security positions until those in the hit vehicle are evacuated to another vehicle or airlifted out and then the convoy proceeding on to what I am speaking of as front-line infantry combat patrols.

    Granted some of those convoys may come under further small arms fire, but I bet there is maybe a handful of instances where the female soldiers dismounted and conducted maneuvers to neutralize the small arms fire.

    Sitting behind a sheet of armor in a humvee shooting a .50 cal is not the same doing a 2 hour patrol, taking contract and then being in a running gunfight for the next 4 hours.

    This distinction is very important.

    Therefore there has not been any accurate information (Or VERY little that can not be applied to such a broad issue) that could be used to judge how females would perform in front-line combat situations. Once again, infantry style combat is only comparable to infantry style combat. Serving in artillery is NOWHERE near the same experience as serving in the infantry.

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    Re: U.K. Considers Lifting Combat Ban for Female Troops.

    [quote=lunecat;1058041392]Oh yes of course women should be permitted to partisipate in front-line combat.

    Women performed all the jobs men did during WWII - factory workers etc and even the Russian allowed women to fight on the front line - some very good female tank commanders.
    All the jobs? Show me the stats for how many women stormed the beaches of Normandy, and while you're at check for the amount of total U.S women casualties that occurred at Iwo Jima.



    I don't really buy into the weaker-sex thing - even if there were one or two activities that women might not be able to physically perform - those could be taken into account, firing a rifle at a enemy combatant isn't one of them ....
    So your view of combat is simply shooting a rifle? You may want to reconsider this then respond accordingly.
    "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." -Jefferson

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