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Thread: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    You'd almost think with it being a casino that in order to attract business they'd have to serve alcohol, but I also know that some of the tribes are absolutely, positively, 110% dead-set opposed to alcohol sales on the reservation.

    Considering the problems it's caused, I can't really say I blame them...
    No, but then the drinking gets exported off the res. NOT good for neighboring communities, like Hardin. Things only get more complicated because the res Indians can't be arrested by local law enforcement. Gotta call in the res police for that.

    It's a big mess, no matter how you look at it.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Alcohol among Native Americans

    Alcohol found its way to the Native American population of North America during early contacts between Native people and European visitors, traders and explorers who, for whatever reasons, were eager to share their intoxicating drink. And, like many other so-called civilizing influences, alcohol altered the Native American existence, culture, and way of life for many years even yet to come.


    It is theorized that traders wishing to gain the upper hand in their dealings introduced alcohol, because of its effects on Native thoughts and reasoning. And, when alcohol became an expected part of trading events, Europeans often came out with the lion's share of traded goods. It wasn't long before Native Americans began to lose their hold on an age-old cherished culture, losing more and more of themselves in the process. Though alcohol was not the only factor in the declining culture, it certainly posed a significant part of the process.


    Alcohol, with its addictions for the unsuspecting Natives, allowed warriors to be cheated, slaughtered, or both, all for their coveted furs. And, like the "white man's" diseases, alcohol demanded a heavy toll. Countless Natives lost their lives to alcohol and its effects, some of them spinning out of control in a downward spiral that lasted years. Alcohol became an anesthetic, numbing the heart and soul of a people who had lost their hold on a way of life that would never again be able to sustain them.


    The last sentence in the article reads...Finding, believing in, and respecting culture and heritage is a positive first step toward a more hopeful future for all of us.

    This is so true for all cultures and their heritage..begin to respect them and positive things will happen.
    Last edited by goldendog; 05-28-09 at 07:32 PM.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    No, but then the drinking gets exported off the res. NOT good for neighboring communities, like Hardin. Things only get more complicated because the res Indians can't be arrested by local law enforcement. Gotta call in the res police for that.

    It's a big mess, no matter how you look at it.
    Actually, Hardin does quite fine living off the illness of their neighbors. As do most "border" towns.

    Native Americans are subject to the exact same laws as you are. They are arrested quite frequently in Hardin and although adult NA's make up only 6% of the state of Montana, we make up more then 20% of the prison population. Given that in Montana, the laws of the state were developed to make just -being- Indian illegal, and any activity pertaining to our cultures was illegal........... anyway.
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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    It's true, Hardin wants the detainees. We in Indian country are watching and kind of snickering about it, hoping they get the detainnees, hoping if Montana has some other focus for their hatred and racism, it'll let up on us. Probably not, but we can hope eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Alcohol among Native Americans

    Alcohol found its way to the Native American population of North America during early contacts between Native people and European visitors, traders and explorers who, for whatever reasons, were eager to share their intoxicating drink. And, like many other so-called civilizing influences, alcohol altered the Native American existence, culture, and way of life for many years even yet to come.


    It is theorized that traders wishing to gain the upper hand in their dealings introduced alcohol, because of its effects on Native thoughts and reasoning. And, when alcohol became an expected part of trading events, Europeans often came out with the lion's share of traded goods. It wasn't long before Native Americans began to lose their hold on an age-old cherished culture, losing more and more of themselves in the process. Though alcohol was not the only factor in the declining culture, it certainly posed a significant part of the process.


    Alcohol, with its addictions for the unsuspecting Natives, allowed warriors to be cheated, slaughtered, or both, all for their coveted furs. And, like the "white man's" diseases, alcohol demanded a heavy toll. Countless Natives lost their lives to alcohol and its effects, some of them spinning out of control in a downward spiral that lasted years. Alcohol became an anesthetic, numbing the heart and soul of a people who had lost their hold on a way of life that would never again be able to sustain them.
    It was even more insidious then what's portrayed here. It was US gov't policy as well as army policy to use booze as a tool of their manifest destiny policies. The thought of one general was "let them get drunk and kill each other. It will save us the trouble." I'm paraphrasing, not an exact quote, but you get the idea. I'm too lazy right now to dig up the quote.

    The other part of this, the gov't used to hire whiskey traders to go in to our communities before important negotiations to "soften" us up. The whiskey traders rarely brought real honest to god whiskey, it was usually highly watered down, or mixed with kerosene and other poisons. Again, if the whiskey killed us, so much the better.

    That's why the irony of those huge casinos, preying on other people's addictions, never ceases to stike me at the sick irony of the whole thing.
    I am a Tiki Bar Tarte, do you really think you can Tango with me?!?
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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Alcohol, with its addictions for the unsuspecting Natives, allowed warriors to be cheated, slaughtered, or both, all for their coveted furs. And, like the "white man's" diseases, alcohol demanded a heavy toll. Countless Natives lost their lives to alcohol and its effects, some of them spinning out of control in a downward spiral that lasted years. Alcohol became an anesthetic, numbing the heart and soul of a people who had lost their hold on a way of life that would never again be able to sustain them.
    This is so heartbreaking, I almost regret posting it.

    Just south of the Pine Ridge Indian Reseervation in South Dakota, only about 1/2 mile south of the town of Pine Ridge, lies the town of Whiteclay, Nebraska - a small little town with a population of about 20. Also in Whiteclay are four liquor stores.

    According to a March 10th, 2009 article in the Omaha World-Herald --

    "Drive slowly through Whiteclay, and you’ll likely see Native American men sitting along the road, often in a stupor. Stop and park, and you see up close the despondency of individuals visibly in the grips of alcoholism.

    Just up the road from Whiteclay, across the shortgrass plains country that marks the border with South Dakota, lies the Pine Ridge Reservation. Home to the Oglala Sioux, the reservation is lamentably burdened by unspeakable poverty and hopelessness. The four liquor stores in Whiteclay, an unincorporated village of fewer than 20 people, sell beer in remarkable volume to the reservation’s residents."


    "Remarkable volume" doesn't even begin to come close to describing the beer sales in Whiteclay. According to the Liquor Control Commission in the State of Nebraska, in 2008 these four stores sold an estimated 175,690 cases of beer in 2008.

    Let me illustrate how big that number is --

    On occasion I carry beer in the truck as cargo. A pallet of bottles of beer is 7 cases to a layer, 6 layers high - 42 cases/pallet. I can carry 21 pallets of bottled beer (882 cases) in a semi-trailer without being overweight.

    175,690 cases of beer = 199 trailer loads of beer. Each one of these Whiteclay liquor stores is going through about a trailer load of beer a week.

    481 cases of beer sold everyday in a small town in Nebraska located just across the state line from the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation... the numbers speak for themselves.

    This isn't something I say lightly: I'm ashamed of my country for what we've done - and what we continue to do - to the Native Americans.
    Last edited by SpotsCat; 05-28-09 at 08:22 PM.
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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    This is so heartbreaking, I almost regret posting it.

    Just south of the Pine Ridge Indian Reseervation in South Dakota, only about 1/2 mile south of the town of Pine Ridge, lies the town of Whiteclay, Nebraska - a small little town with a population of about 20. Also in Whiteclay are four liquor stores.

    According to a March 10th, 2009 article in the Omaha World-Herald --

    "Drive slowly through Whiteclay, and you’ll likely see Native American men sitting along the road, often in a stupor. Stop and park, and you see up close the despondency of individuals visibly in the grips of alcoholism.

    Just up the road from Whiteclay, across the shortgrass plains country that marks the border with South Dakota, lies the Pine Ridge Reservation. Home to the Oglala Sioux, the reservation is lamentably burdened by unspeakable poverty and hopelessness. The four liquor stores in Whiteclay, an unincorporated village of fewer than 20 people, sell beer in remarkable volume to the reservation’s residents."


    "Remarkable volume" doesn't even begin to come close to describing the beer sales in Whiteclay. According to the Liquor Control Commission in the State of Nebraska, in 2008 these four stores sold an estimated 175,690 cases of beer in 2008.

    Let me illustrate how big that number is --

    On occasion I carry beer in the truck as cargo. A pallet of bottles of beer is 7 cases to a layer, 6 layers high - 42 cases/pallet. I can carry 21 pallets of bottled beer (882 cases) in a semi-trailer without being overweight.

    175,690 cases of beer = 199 trailer loads of beer. Each one of these Whiteclay liquor stores is going through about a trailer load of beer a week.

    481 cases of beer sold everyday in a small town in Nebraska located just across the state line from the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation... the numbers speak for themselves.

    This isn't something I say lightly: I'm ashamed of my country for what we've done - and what we continue to do - to the Native Americans.
    I agree wholeheartedly...alcohol was and is being used to kill the spirit of American Indians and their heritage. I agree with you I am also ashamed of my country for what they have done and continue to do to Native Americans.
    Last edited by goldendog; 05-28-09 at 08:38 PM.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by NDNdancer View Post
    Native Americans are subject to the exact same laws as you are. They are arrested quite frequently in Hardin
    I can only tell you of my personal experiences on patrol with a close friend who was a Big Horn County deputy in Hardin for several years. When we came across a Res Indian wandering drunk through the streets, passed out in alleys, fighting, etc., we picked them up and brought them to a holding cell in Hardin. The res police were called and the individuals were released to their custody.

    They were not arrested for public drunkenness.

    Quote Originally Posted by NDNdancer View Post
    Given that in Montana, the laws of the state were developed to make just -being- Indian illegal, and any activity pertaining to our cultures was illegal........... anyway.
    I'd like to know more about this. Do you have a good website you can recommend?

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I know that the Montana Senate and Congressmen are strongly opposed to this and are trying to block it because they are worried that "Montana's reputation will suffer." I wasn't aware that we even had a reputation to begin with.
    You ever heard of Brokeback Mountain?

    I think the Gitmo terrorists should have to watch Brokeback Mountain at least a half dozen times as an introduction to good'ol fashioned Montana hospitality.

    Or WOULD THAT be considered torture too?

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    Last edited by zimmer; 05-30-09 at 06:59 PM.
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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You ever heard of Brokeback Mountain?

    I think the Gitmo terrorists should have to watch Brokeback Mountain at least a half dozen times as an introduction to good'ol fashioned Montana hospitality.

    Or WOULD THAT be considered torture too?

    .
    Uhhh... Brokeback Mountain was in Wyoming.

    A better movie about good ol' Montana hospitality is The Shining.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    I was driving through Montana once and stopped in a old run down mineing town to ask directions and walk into this bar to make the inquiry. All of the people in there looked as if they were suffering from gunshot wounds. Bandages all over the place. The old man that answered my question did so though the hole in his thoat from throat cancer. As he was smoking a cigarette through the same hole...It reminded me of something out of a Steven King flick.

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