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Thread: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

  1. #51
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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The better term is "enemy". Because wars do not concern themselves with guilt or innocence, that being a matter for civillian courts in peacetime. Rather soldiers and patriots are concerned with national survival and the protection of the kids at home.

    Since the illegal enemy combatants are found on battlefields bearing arms against American troops, since those darling little people can't get the nations they claim to be from to acknowledge them and claim them, they're stateless enemy combatants and what the hell is a nation fighting a war against an amorphous multinational internationally nonspecific cowardly enemy supposed to do with the flotsam picked up on the battlefield?

    Personally, I'm all for questioning them until they're drained dry and then feeding them to the pigs.

    I haven't forgotten what those people did on September 11, 2001, and will never forget and never forgive the people involved.

    What's wrong with you?
    Your aparently missing the fact that alot of those detained are, most likely, not terroists (or enemy combatants for that matter), I refer to my previous post. Whats wrong with me? Basically I object when innocent people are detained and tortured, I guess Im just moraly bankrupt.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 05-23-09 at 04:02 PM.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Your aparently missing the fact that alot of those detained are, most likely, not terroists (or enemy combatants for that matter), I refer to my previous post. Whats wrong with me? Basically I object when innocent people are detained and tortured, I guess Im just moraly bankrupt.

    You apparently miss the fact that most if not close to all those who fit under your description have already been released. Your lines faded away 2 years ago.

    People in there now are in 3 primary classes.
    1. New captures
    2. People with nowhere to release(the Chinese Uyghers ie)
    3. Hard core Terrorists.

    I object to treating enemy soldiers(or whatever classification you prefer) are treated as if they are common criminals subject to trials during the war and then possible release during the war.
    Already had some go back and resume fighting for the enemy==those who released them are as responsible for those they killed as they are.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    You apparently miss the fact that most if not close to all those who fit under your description have already been released. Your lines faded away 2 years ago.

    People in there now are in 3 primary classes.
    1. New captures
    2. People with nowhere to release(the Chinese Uyghers ie)
    3. Hard core Terrorists.

    I object to treating enemy soldiers(or whatever classification you prefer) are treated as if they are common criminals subject to trials during the war and then possible release during the war.
    Already had some go back and resume fighting for the enemy==those who released them are as responsible for those they killed as they are.
    Well the last person to be released that i know about is Binyam Ahmed Mohamed who was released on Febuary 23rd this year. So the fact that a number of these people are innocent is still and ongoing issue. It could only be the tip of the iceberg for all we know. As for those who end up fighting allied forces in Afganistan you have to ask yourself how many of these people were radicalised to begin with and how many were radicalised as a result of their experiences.

    Im all for preventing our troops from getting killed as well but the only way we,re going to win the war in afganistan is by getting the Afgans on side. Abducting and torturing innocent people [among other things] is hardly endering us to them. Al Qaeda as a whole basis its actions on the theory that the West is involved in a conspiricy against the muslim world. Acting like the enemy Al Qaeda portrays us as is hardly going to help us.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Personally, I don't care where they are detained. My main concern is their legal status. I believe our government needs to create a judicial ancillary in order to deal with these types of situations. No, we shouldn't have a blank check to imprison people indefinitely without trial, but we shouldn't extend the rights of an American citizen to everyone in the world either. We need to find a pragmatic middle ground and we need to create a new legal field and judiciary to define and implement it.

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Where the f*** do you get the idea that the "left" has sympathy for these guys? If you don't understand the issue any better than that, maybe you should stay out of it. Most of these detainees are not terrorists, and should not have rotted in Gitmo for eight years. Those that are terrorists should be either locked up for life or killed. Either way, some sort of justice should have been rendered by now, and your Republican administration weakened America by screwing up what should have been a straight forward POW issue.
    you are the one that refers to these people as "poor shmucks" as if we just swept in and picked up some random muslims out of the market place.

    How do you know if any of these people aren't terrorists? Even if we don't define them as terrorists, and rather as enemy combatants, they should not be afforded the civil proceedings of an American civilian. This is a strictly military matter, and as such these "poor shmucks" should be tried underneath the military system. I don't think they need to be detained indefinantley without trial, but all this poo-pooing about how they should be tried in civil court is just ludricrous. This is not a criminal issue, its a military issue. And don't call it my Republican administration, I have nothing to do with the republicans whatsoever.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  6. #56
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    Yes, i believe the number was 1 in 7. Lets see, that means that 6 in 7 were innocent. That's a failing grade to me and every single school in the nation. Unless of course you go to Liberty University or something, I'm not sure exactly what they base their grades on.
    Actually, it means that 6 out of 7 weren't caught or known to be fighting Americans again. It says nothing about their guilt or innocence. Might want to check where your diploma was printed before you start making snotty remarks.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  7. #57
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    You are aware that we admitted that we were wrong afterward and apologized for our actions in additions to paying the survivors for what we did to them. Once again, if you don't bother to learn your own history then you are doomed to repeat it.
    I am aware that the US apologized to the Japanese and German civilians that were held at Manzanar and other camps. I was not aware that we made such apologies to German POWs or their families. Got a link to that?
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Personally, I don't care where they are detained. My main concern is their legal status. I believe our government needs to create a judicial ancillary in order to deal with these types of situations. No, we shouldn't have a blank check to imprison people indefinitely without trial, but we shouldn't extend the rights of an American citizen to everyone in the world either. We need to find a pragmatic middle ground and we need to create a new legal field and judiciary to define and implement it.
    Thats exactly the problem. There is no set of laws or rules, either internationally or within the US, regarding the kind of combatants we face today. The Geneva Conventions don't apply. The US Constitution doesn't apply. The screw up we are dealing with, is that there was no pursuit of establishing a code or guidelines, as to how we(or anybody dealing with this down the road) should proceed. There needs to be some kind of measure introduced(into the Geneva Conventions, IMO) dealing with the rights of non-uniformed enemy combatants.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
    Again, if you aren't making rational arguments don't expect people to take you seriously. Oh, and by the way, just saying FAIL every freaking time you disagree with somebody also isn't helping you out any.
    Why don't you answer the question?

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    Re: Hardin, Montana Requests Guantanamo Detainees

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Your aparently missing the fact that alot of those detained are, most likely, not terroists (or enemy combatants for that matter), I refer to my previous post. Whats wrong with me? Basically I object when innocent people are detained and tortured, I guess Im just moraly bankrupt.
    Upon what exactly do you base this assertion?

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