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Thread: Four Charged in Alleged Synagogue Bomb Plot

  1. #21
    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Four Charged in Alleged Synagogue Bomb Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    I find it laughable you think studies by economists on false premises have a proper role in political and criminal science.
    Don't laugh too hard. IIRC... Right has a Law degree. He certainly knows the legal stuff and is excellent at providing pertinint citations.

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  2. #22
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    Re: Four Charged in Alleged Synagogue Bomb Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    What are you basing this conclusion on? The fact that people still kill each other?

    How would you expect to "physically see" it deterring homicides?
    No, the fact that the rate of homicide is and has been growing lower in non-death penalty states. Should I make the claim that life imprisonment deters homicide more than the death penalty? I am only presenting evidence that doesn't support a faulty a premise.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    It's not just plotting an x and y chart - there's a bit more to it than that. Read a few of the actual studies.
    I've read most of them. All it is a few pro-death penalty trying to stir up something before the Supreme Court makes the decision next year on lethal injections.

    (Also, what you had made bold - not quoted above - are all variables they eliminated. Thanks for proving my point on this controlled study.)

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    You say that as if it means something.
    Great rhetoric. I didn't expect anything better when presented with evidence against the death penalty deterring homicides.

    [quote=RightinNYC[
    I'm just amazed that you don't seem to understand why the things you keep bringing up are non-responsive to the studies I referenced.[/quote]
    I'm just amazed you think studies on faulty premises is worthy evidence for the death penalty deterring homicides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Don't laugh too hard. IIRC... Right has a Law degree. He certainly knows the legal stuff and is excellent at providing pertinint citations.
    He's not the only one

  3. #23
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    Re: Four Charged in Alleged Synagogue Bomb Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    No, the fact that the rate of homicide is and has been growing lower in non-death penalty states.
    You keep missing a pretty fundamental point - the fact that X happens does not mean that Y caused it. Say NY passes a law next year that says that all convicted felons are required to have handguns. If the economy gets significantly better, causing the homicide rate to fall, does that mean that giving guns to felons saves lives?

    In order to prove that the homicide rate was decreasing because of giving guns to felons, I would have to conduct a study that would correct for all the externalities. Which is exactly what was done here. 12 times.

    Should I make the claim that life imprisonment deters homicide more than the death penalty?
    Sure, if you can support it.

    I am only presenting evidence that doesn't support a faulty a premise.
    ?

    I've read most of them. All it is a few pro-death penalty trying to stir up something before the Supreme Court makes the decision next year on lethal injections.
    No, it's really not. Again, did you even read the article or are you just making this up?

    First, the studies were published between 2003 and 2006, which means they were started significantly before that. Amazing how they were able to predict that the SC was going to "make the decision" on lethal injections in 2009.

    Second, take a look at some of the statements of the authors:

    “I personally am opposed to the death penalty,” said H. Naci Mocan, an economist at Louisiana State University and an author of a study finding that each execution saves five lives. “But my research shows that there is a deterrent effect.”
    “I am definitely against the death penalty on lots of different grounds,” said Joanna M. Shepherd, a law professor at Emory with a doctorate in economics who wrote or contributed to several studies. “But I do believe that people respond to incentives.”
    Sure sounds like they're just trying to justify it.

    But wait, there's more:

    “The evidence on whether it has a significant deterrent effect seems sufficiently plausible that the moral issue becomes a difficult one,” said Cass R. Sunstein, a law professor at the University of Chicago who has frequently taken liberal positions. “I did shift from being against the death penalty to thinking that if it has a significant deterrent effect it’s probably justified.”

    Professor Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule, a law professor at Harvard, wrote in their own Stanford Law Review article that “the recent evidence of a deterrent effect from capital punishment seems impressive, especially in light of its ‘apparent power and unanimity,’ ” quoting a conclusion of a separate overview of the evidence in 2005 by Robert Weisberg, a law professor at Stanford, in the Annual Review of Law and Social Science.

    “Capital punishment may well save lives,” the two professors continued. “Those who object to capital punishment, and who do so in the name of protecting life, must come to terms with the possibility that the failure to inflict capital punishment will fail to protect life.”
    Yea, that's that noted arch-conservative [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein"]Cass Sunstein[/ame]. What a right-wing nutjob.

    (Also, what you had made bold - not quoted above - are all variables they eliminated. Thanks for proving my point on this controlled study.)
    They didn't "eliminate" them as you're insinuating, they corrected for them. They're a critically important part of the study.

    Great rhetoric. I didn't expect anything better when presented with evidence against the death penalty deterring homicides.
    I'm being 100% serious when I'm saying that that factoid, if true, still means nothing. Causation =/= correlation.

    I'm just amazed you think studies on faulty premises is worthy evidence for the death penalty deterring homicides.
    You still haven't identified a single faulty premise. So far you've:

    -Said they were invalid because of Canadian homicide data,
    -Said they were invalid because you can't "physically see" it, and
    -Said they were invalid because homicide rates are lower in non-death penalty states
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 05-23-09 at 06:42 AM.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #24
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    4 not smarter than a 5th grade zuccinni squash!

    I read the eatils as to how these bozo's were played with by the FBI and it appears that they may or may not be smarter than a 5th grade zuccinni squash!
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    You don't understand our laws

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I do not understand our laws. These guys are simply facing life in prison. They should be facing execution. Why keep them around for tax payers to cover the bill for maintaining their worthless lives.
    conspiracy for terrorism is not unfortunately a capital offense. It should be!
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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