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Thread: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not necessarily. Hunters are killed every year in Michigan accidentally, frequently from some one elses stupidity. There are rarely charges.
    Being hit mistakenly is an assumed risk in those arias. Someone has to be severely injured or killed for charges to be pressed.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If he were a pregnant girl he could get an abortion, so yeah I do think there's precedent for him to make his own decision here, especially since he has his family's support.
    Neither abortion nor childbirth are inherently life-threatening (although either can be). If a 13-year-old girl was seeking an abortion and the doctors warned her that there was a good chance it would kill her and advised her to give birth instead (or vice versa), then yes, I would question her mental competence.

    That is different from this situation. We have a situation where one option is almost certain to save the boy's life, and the other option is almost certain to result in his death.
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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    That's true (boy is a minor) & his parents MAY BE lunatics....Then again, they may not.
    I still stand by my opinion:

    1. Age 13 is old enough to possibly have pretty good maturity & understanding to decide what should be done to your body that may be against your wishes. Again, if I were the judge, the boy's wishes would weigh heavily in my mind.
    2. If the parents are "clearly lunatics." then that would have to be taken into account. There would have to obviously be pretty good legal reason to decide against the parents & the boy himself.
    What is the difference in willfully denying your child life saving treatments for a highly treatable form of cancer and thus condemning them to a long and agonizing death, and a parent willfully starving their child to death?

    13 is not even old enough to legally decide to drink a beer, yet you think its old enough to legally decide to refuse medical treatment and thus die a horrible death?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    13 is not even old enough to legally decide to drink a beer, yet you think its old enough to legally decide to refuse medical treatment and thus die a horrible death?
    You might run into an is/ought problem here, at least with the extremists among us.

    That is, I believe the majority of 13 year olds would probably be capable of making rational decisions if specifically taught to do so from an early age.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    What is the difference in willfully denying your child life saving treatments for a highly treatable form of cancer and thus condemning them to a long and agonizing death, and a parent willfully starving their child to death?

    13 is not even old enough to legally decide to drink a beer, yet you think its old enough to legally decide to refuse medical treatment and thus die a horrible death?
    If I (as the judge) interview the child (in Chambers, in private) & determine that he understands his situation & prefers to not accept medical treatment, I would not force it upon him.

    That's how I would handle the situation.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    I think the parent's and the child's choice is wrong, but NOT acting on something is not the same as ACTING to bring something about.

    Don't we value personal freedom to determine the course of our lives? If one doesn't want to receive extraordinary medical treatment--what right does any legal body have in butting in and compelling a person to receive extraordinary care? The same people who will scream at the top of their lungs that a terminally ill person should be able to determine how and when he dies seem to be the ones raising holy hell that these people can't decide NOT to live. What IS that if not hypocrisy?

    Comparisons have been made to not feeding a kid--nourishment is not extraordinary medical treatment. Being hooked up to poisonous chemicals in order kill off mutant cells--that is extraordinary.

    Mind you--I totally disagree with the parents and the boy, but I side with their freedom to be wrong.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I think the parent's and the child's choice is wrong, but NOT acting on something is not the same as ACTING to bring something about.

    Don't we value personal freedom to determine the course of our lives? If one doesn't want to receive extraordinary medical treatment--what right does any legal body have in butting in and compelling a person to receive extraordinary care? The same people who will scream at the top of their lungs that a terminally ill person should be able to determine how and when he dies seem to be the ones raising holy hell that these people can't decide NOT to live. What IS that if not hypocrisy?

    Comparisons have been made to not feeding a kid--nourishment is not extraordinary medical treatment. Being hooked up to poisonous chemicals in order kill off mutant cells--that is extraordinary.

    Mind you--I totally disagree with the parents and the boy, but I side with their freedom to be wrong.
    Why does it matter if it's "extraordinary"? Both food and chemotherapy are necessary to keep the kid alive. Killing him in either case doesn't require doing anything to him...it just requires neglecting him and DENYING him what he needs to survive.
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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why does it matter if it's "extraordinary"? Both food and chemotherapy are necessary to keep the kid alive. Killing him in either case doesn't require doing anything to him...it just requires neglecting him and DENYING him what he needs to survive.
    Food is not poison that makes you lose your hair and get really sick and weak. You never would go out on a chemo-date like you would a lunch date. You don't imbibe chemo every single day of your life. Many people live their entire lives NEVER having chemo--EVERYONE eats.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why does it matter if it's "extraordinary"? Both food and chemotherapy are necessary to keep the kid alive. Killing him in either case doesn't require doing anything to him...it just requires neglecting him and DENYING him what he needs to survive.
    Kandahar, a baseball and your testicles are very similar. They are both round, and both have things inside them that are important to their operation. There is also an important difference. One is designed to be hit with a bat, the other you would probably prefer was not. Just because things share similarities does not make them the same, and drawing incomplete comparisons based on the similarities can only need to mistaken judgments.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I think the parent's and the child's choice is wrong, but NOT acting on something is not the same as ACTING to bring something about.
    Ok, then by that justification, you should not be able to poison your child because your acting to bring harm to them. However, if you just NOT feed them, then your not acting on something, and thus the authorities should not become involved.

    Don't we value personal freedom to determine the course of our lives?
    Yes.

    If one doesn't want to receive extraordinary medical treatment--what right does any legal body have in butting in and compelling a person to receive extraordinary care?
    They have no right at all, if that individual that turns down life saving medical treatment is a legally competent adult. The reason for that is that you own yourself. Thus you can and should be able to do with yourself what you want to do with yourself so long as your actions do not impact the ability of others to do the same.

    However, you don't own your children. You have custody of them. You act on their behalf. Their care is your responsibilty. Yet, they are not your property like your body is your property. For example, you can lay up drunk every day of your adult life, smoke 2 packs a day, and ensure that you probably will never make 50. You can do that because the consequences of your actions impact your body, which is your property. You cannot though, force your kids to drink a 5th a day and smoke 2 packs a day, because you don't own them, and they cannot yet make that decision about their life yet because they are not a legally competent adult yet.

    The same people who will scream at the top of their lungs that a terminally ill person should be able to determine how and when he dies seem to be the ones raising holy hell that these people can't decide NOT to live. What IS that if not hypocrisy?
    It would be hypocrisy if the kid was 18 and compitent rather than 13. See above.

    Comparisons have been made to not feeding a kid--nourishment is not extraordinary medical treatment. Being hooked up to poisonous chemicals in order kill off mutant cells--that is extraordinary.
    There is no difference. Either way, its willfully ensuring the child's death. Perhaps a parent that starved their child to death believed God would nourish them so long that their faith was strong enough.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 05-20-09 at 09:56 PM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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