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Thread: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    American Indian family wanting to use traditional means of medicine due to their cultural traditions.
    That seems part of it.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo
    AP

    By AMY FORLITI, Associated Press Writer Amy Forliti, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 32 mins ago

    NEW ULM, Minn. Authorities nationwide were on the lookout Wednesday for a mother and her 13-year-old cancer-stricken son who fled after refusing the chemotherapy that doctors say could save the boy's life.


    I'm an agnostic,( bordering on an atheist) but I don't see where the state's views should trump the parents, regardless of how wrong the parents may be. (also, in this case, the 13 year old is old enough to have major input in what he does or doesn't do)
    Doesn't the boy have a right to die if that's what he wants, with the support of his family and community?

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I think whether the choice is being made by someone of a sound mind is pertinent regardless of age.
    That has been argued and the position favored in this case.
    Seems the moms the main pusher in this but who knows.
    If the core rational is ignorant in our opinion.. well ours is in theirs.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    There is obviously no "Correct" answer to this question & since there are no guarantees on either side of the issue, barring parental neglect or provable lack of care for their child, I think the state has no RIGHT to overrule the parent's & their child's decision.

    There is a possibility that the cancer could improve by itself & there is a possibility that chemo may not work,or worse, may even kill the little boy.

    Imagine this scenario:

    With the parents locked up to ensure they could not interfere, the state send its agents in who grab the screaming & struggling little boy & hold him down while chemotherapy is forced upon him &.........the little boy dies during a treatment!
    Can anyone imagine a scene like that????
    Can anyone say that would not be a possibility?

    The state has no business involving itself!
    Last edited by Devil505; 05-20-09 at 09:11 PM.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    A more accurate scenario would be an old man declines treatment for his cancer. He goes to court with his family and explains to the court if his time has come it has come. He knows he has cancer. He knows and understands his statistical outcome with different choices. He doesn't care and willingly accepts that he may die by refusing treatment. The court allows him to make his decision, declares him competent to do so.

    vs.

    An old man goes to court with his family. He has refused treatment for his cancer. He doesn't believe he has cancer. He especially doesn't believe it's as big as those dang x-rays are making it out to be. He doesn't believe that anything the drs are saying is true. He thinks they're all full of b.s. He doesn't believe he needs treatment. And he doesn't believe he's putting himself at risk by refusing treatment. Plus he has really good water delivered to his house which like cures all his ailments. Likely the courts in this case will appoint someone else in charge of making this guy's decisions because he's incompetent- delusional.
    See, now I don't see these situations as different from how I see things. In neither case should the government get involved in medical decisions.

    Let me tell you a story about why I think this way. I tried looking up details on this, but it happened back when I was in high school, around 1980, and not having any luck. A 13 year old girl living in Detroit was molested by her mothers boyfriend and got pregnant. She wanted to have an abortion, but her mother would not allow it. Somehow she got in touch with a lawyer, and the lawyer filed with the court for her to have an abortion. The judge assigned was vehemently anti-abortion. he sat on the case for an extended period of time, then finally, after some deadline for performing the abortion was imminent, recused himself, leaving not enough time for a new judge to be assigned and grant the permission. Note that this is almost 30 years ago, and I am working from memory, but that is the basic element of the story.

    Now, I realize that my stance means that the girl still would not have been able to have an abortion. That is not the point, I accept that it is sad, but sad things happen. The point I am trying to make with the story is, the people in government who would have to make medical decisions if the court intervenes are not proven to be any more capable of making clear, reasoned decisions than parents are. For that reason, among others, I feel that the government just should not get involved in medical decisions.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Doesn't the boy have a right to die if that's what he wants, with the support of his family and community?
    Sure, if you consider a 13 year old who can't read and who is most likely under pressure from his parents to be mentally competent to make that decision.

    The age of consent for other "adult" decisions and activities ranges from 16 to 21 in most states. 16 seems like a better place than 13 to draw the line here...and since the kid can't even read, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of doubt when it comes to his mental competence.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-20-09 at 09:10 PM.
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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    When someone dies because of your stubborn stupidity, it's called manslaughter.
    Not necessarily. Hunters are killed every year in Michigan accidentally, frequently from some one elses stupidity. There are rarely charges.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Her religious zeal is so blinding that she gambles with the life of her very own son and also doesn't recognize that chemo may be the very hand God is reaching out with to save her son's life.
    A devout Christian heard a news report on the radio that severe flooding was expected in his town in a few hours and that all residents should flee immediately to higher ground. But he wasn't worried, because the Lord would protect him. So he set about reading his Bible and praying for safety from the impending flood.

    Sure enough, a few hours later, the waters came and his house started to flood. So he ran upstairs to escape the rising waters, while praying to the Lord. Moments later, he found himself sitting on the roof of his house as the waters continued to rise. Just then, a helicopter appeared and a voice over a loudspeaker told him to get into the rescue basket. He declined saying, "The Lord will rescue me, so go and help someone else." So the helicopter continued on in a search for more victims.

    Soon, his house started to float away and break up. Just before it completely fell apart, he managed to grab onto an over hanging branch of a tree. He desperately clung to the tree while still praying to God. Then he noticed a rescue boat approaching him and they told to get ready to jump inside. But he said, "I'll be alright. The Lord will rescue me. Please help someone else." So the boat continued on looking for more victims.

    Moments later, the tree broke apart and the man fell into the deadly waters of the raging river and drowned.

    Standing before the Lord, he asked, "Lord, why didn't You answer my prayer for help"?

    The Lord looked at him and said, "Son, I sent you a message over the radio to flee your home, but you ignored it. Then I sent you a helicopter to lift you off your roof and you ignored that too. Finally, I sent you a rescue boat to take you off that tree, but you ignored that also. What more did you want Me to do?"

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sure, if you consider a 13 year old who can't read and who is most likely under pressure from his parents to be mentally competent to make that decision.

    The age of consent for other "adult" decisions and activities ranges from 16 to 21 in most states. 16 seems like a better place than 13 to draw the line here...and since the kid can't even read, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of doubt when it comes to his mental competence.
    If he were a pregnant girl he could get an abortion, so yeah I do think there's precedent for him to make his own decision here, especially since he has his family's support.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'll be honest, I'm still trying to fully form my position on this and am unsure which side I'm coming in on.

    For those going on about the "crazy religious" people, out of curiosity (as part of it makes me wonder how much of this is hatred for religions and part how much is hatred for christians) I'd ask this...

    If this person was a(n)...

    athiest that was, to use a politically incorrect but more to the point term, a Hippy who didn't trust "the man" and the corporations and because of that wanted to use holistic healing.

    American Indian family wanting to use traditional means of medicine due to their cultural traditions.

    Wiccan who wanted holistic healing due to their religious beleifs.

    Would all those be "Stupid ****s" and "lunatics" that were "brainwashing" their kid?
    If this kid was an atheist 13 year old my position would be the same. Neither he nor his parents are competent enough to make such a decision. Only I wouldn't say they are doing out of their religious beliefs. Just sheer stupidity. In this case religious beliefs replace stupidity. They're basically the same only with different names. Once again. If your religious beliefs tell you that IONIZED WATER can in ANY WAY cure a decease like Cancer. Maybe it's time to start shopping for a new religion or dive into the shallow end of the pool.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-20-09 at 09:22 PM.
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