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Thread: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    There's no hardwired element in him that would resist informed awareness of these circumstances, I'd imagine. Hence, the solution is to thoroughly inform him of every conceivable circumstance and implication of any specific course of action, and then take him to a room out of earshot of his parents and ask him what his choice would be.
    This child has been taught not to trust the doctors, the courts, the state by his parents. You can't un-teach that by merely putting him in a different room for an hour or so.

    If he believes his tumor hasn't grown because his mother swears up and down it hasn't and he further believes the drs. and the courts are outright lying when they claim it has then separating him from his mother and trying to talk sense into him isn't going to work.

    The court said this boy believes that the chemo will kill him. He also dose not believe he is dangerously ill or that his cancer is going to kill him.

    Asking him his choice when he's brain washed and deluded is pointless. Explaining how things are, laying out the facts so to speak, is positively pointless if the child you're talking to was convinced by his nutty mother and her guru magic man that you're a liar.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    This child has been taught not to trust the doctors, the courts, the state by his parents. You can't un-teach that by merely putting him in a different room for an hour or so.

    If he believes his tumor hasn't grown because his mother swears up and down it hasn't and he further believes the drs. and the courts are outright lying when they claim it has then separating him from his mother and trying to talk sense into him isn't going to work.

    The court said this boy believes that the chemo will kill him. He also dose not believe he is dangerously ill or that his cancer is going to kill him.

    Asking him his choice when he's brain washed and deluded is pointless. Explaining how things are, laying out the facts so to speak, is positively pointless if the child you're talking to was convinced by his nutty mother and her guru magic man that you're a liar.
    He's not brainwashed silly! I mean believing that ionized water and a bit of herbs can cure cancer is NOT brainwashing.
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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    I have mixed feelings about this case. I generally don't like to impose the state over parents' rights to raise their children. However, assuming the chemo is the best and only alternative, I have to side on the boy's right to life.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I have mixed feelings about this case. I generally don't like to impose the state over parents' rights to raise their children. However, assuming the chemo is the best and only alternative, I have to side on the boy's right to life.
    there's hope for you yet

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    This child has been taught not to trust the doctors, the courts, the state by his parents. You can't un-teach that by merely putting him in a different room for an hour or so.

    If he believes his tumor hasn't grown because his mother swears up and down it hasn't and he further believes the drs. and the courts are outright lying when they claim it has then separating him from his mother and trying to talk sense into him isn't going to work.

    The court said this boy believes that the chemo will kill him. He also dose not believe he is dangerously ill or that his cancer is going to kill him.

    Asking him his choice when he's brain washed and deluded is pointless. Explaining how things are, laying out the facts so to speak, is positively pointless if the child you're talking to was convinced by his nutty mother and her guru magic man that you're a liar.
    I can't regard this as any more than anecdotal speculation. It would ordinarily be the case that someone his age should have acquired the capacities to make rational decisions about medical treatment, but his lack of information obviously does pose a problem. To be honest, it's true that I can't determine or predict what his individual reaction would be without knowing him personally.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    This case reminds me of a similar one back in Canada where a couple of jehova's witnesses would not allow their four newborns to receive a life saving blood transfusion. Children's aid came and took the kids away, and got them the treatment.

    To me, when religion crosses the line of obstructing modern medical care/knowledge in a life or death case based on archaic, unsubstantiated beliefs, it's then that the state needs to step in.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    The body of soverignty crowd is right here

    Freedom !

    I spent 14 long years in hospital ER`s , Intesive care units, Chemo, OR..., as a practicioner. I want my freedom to choose.

    "Freedom", takes on a whole new meaning, as a refuge from those who wish to decide for me.

    Scientologist John Travolta was not faulted by the general populace,( or most people in DP), nor charged by the law, for decideing that Scientology, and not siezure meds, would be his sons cure/treatment. That was a siezure, that caused the fall, that caused.... many of you folks are selective in choosing the facts on which you base your opinions.
    The person's body in this issue is too young to make an informed choice and clearly whatever was wrong with Travolta's kid was a different order of severity.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The person's body in this issue is too young to make an informed choice
    That's not consistent with the empirical literature on the matter.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That's not consistent with the empirical literature on the matter.
    Good thing the United States is a republic, not an empire.

    Because we're a republic, the government is constituted to protect the citizens, not protect people pushing cockamamie religions, and thus the courts are required to protect the boy when the parents refuse to give him proven life-saving treatment.

    If the people pushing this cockamamie alternative medicine crap want equal standing in the courts, they need to prove, via the same double-blind scientific process as real medicines must follow, the efficacy of their nostrums.

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    Re: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Good thing the United States is a republic, not an empire.

    Because we're a republic, the government is constituted to protect the citizens, not protect people pushing cockamamie religions, and thus the courts are required to protect the boy when the parents refuse to give him proven life-saving treatment.

    If the people pushing this cockamamie alternative medicine crap want equal standing in the courts, they need to prove, via the same double-blind scientific process as real medicines must follow, the efficacy of their nostrums.
    What relevance has this to my remark? I noted that the empirical literature did not support the assessment of persons his age being unable to make informed, rational decisions about medical treatment.

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