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Thread: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

  1. #61
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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Only the obtuse won't acknowlege the given. Read the article, his party rebuked him.

    Follow the logic bus...

    So wait. You wan't me to prove that politicians are looking out for thier own ass instead of Obama's in this GITMO thing, but you wont even acknowledge he wants to close GITMO?

    Right. good idea, play obtuse. that makes the most sense for you.

    Seriously. Obama campaigned on closing GITMO, his own party rebuked him. Since I bring it up, it must be I am "bashing him". Please.

    I suggested you go elsewhere for your own good, as it seems this thread has upset you. I don't care where you post. Just don't whine when you get exactly what you give friend.

    if you don't like the attitude I am giving you. Don't cry about "hacks" and me daring to bring up an issue about a political figure, on a political debate forum. It's just silly.
    Why wouldn't I acknowledge he wants to close Gitmo? His first attempt was refused. That's as obvious as your evasions.

    Nice try. I knew you'd couch your phrases to try and get a rise out of me, since it's obvious that you can't substantiate your words.

    See, I wasn't asking you to substantiate the article..I was asking you to substantiate your own words, which you clearly can't do.

    As for being upset...well, I've not flung rhetoric or insults your way, but you've flung plenty in my direction. I wonder who's upset?

    As this has degenerated, as a gentleman I will bow out of this conversation with you at this point. I'll leave snippets of your veiled insults for you to ponder at your liesure.

    Only the obtuse ...Follow the logic bus... play obtuse..Just don't whine...Don't cry

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Name one attack within the US that was stopped since the second attack on our country on 9-11?
    Can you name one that has occurred? Do you wallow in the profound denial that terrorists are NOT trying to commit even more heinous events than 9-11? Do you live in an alternate universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Remember the first attack on our nation was the WTC attack in 93?
    Remember that Clinton was in charge?


    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Do you think torturing people to desperately find Cheney's dream link that Saddam was tied to 9-11 is good sound policy?
    Do you believe in using farcical hysteric filled emotion and hyperbole to support your obvious ignorance regarding the FACTUAL events that occurred post 9-11?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Was it good policy for Bush and Cheney to allow this second attack to happened after being warned repeatedly?
    Are you this uninformed to think that ANYONE knew and predicted the events of 9-11 would occur?

    It is a vast lie to suggest that anyone even believed such and event would occur; OR it is the incredible after the fact second guessing that serves nothing but play to a divisive hyper partisan lie in an effort to impugn those you disagree with politically.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Remember Clinton caught and put the bombers and planners of the first WTC attack in prison?

    AN AMERICAN PRISON??? Not one in Cuba.
    I guess you have difficulty distinguishing the vast difference between the perpetrators of the first attack which did not involve them dying and the fact that they committed their crime on US soil where EVIDENCE was gathered and presented and the terrorist non-uniformed enemy combatants picked up in the battle fields of Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Or perhaps you do know, but willfully ignore it to make such asinine emotionally filled hyper partisan divisive arguments filled with hyperbole and speculation for purely partisan political purposes.


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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
    Why wouldn't I acknowledge he wants to close Gitmo? His first attempt was refused. That's as obvious as your evasions.

    Nice try. I knew you'd couch your phrases to try and get a rise out of me, since it's obvious that you can't substantiate your words.

    See, I wasn't asking you to substantiate the article..I was asking you to substantiate your own words, which you clearly can't do.

    As for being upset...well, I've not flung rhetoric or insults your way, but you've flung plenty in my direction. I wonder who's upset?

    As this has degenerated, as a gentleman I will bow out of this conversation with you at this point. I'll leave snippets of your veiled insults for you to ponder at your liesure.


    So a "Gentleman" calls people "hacks" and attacks posters for "bashing Obama" on a political forum?




    Bye!
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    If there was any substantial proof what so ever that attacks were twarted or information was obtained through torture that help to twart such attacks then Lord Cheney would have had that information out long ago..
    I guess you missed the news where Cheney has requested the Obama administration to de-classify and release that information but was refused. Hardly surprising based on your emotional hyper partisan uninformed rhetoric.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    By the was if that lady sitting next to Richard Reid on that plane wouldn't have blown out his match then we would be talking about yet another Bush/Cheney blunder.

    They played ZERO roll in twarting Reids attempts to take that plane down.

    The passengers of that plane saved themselves
    I guess you missed the part that Reid was a British Citizen and the part where this was a failure of another countries security systems and that the flight originated in Paris France. DUH!

    I guess you also missed this;

    “…is currently serving a life sentence in the United States for attempting to destroy a commercial aircraft in-flight by detonating explosives hidden in his shoes. According to al-Qaeda operative Mohammed Mansour Jabarah (who was captured and interrogated in Oman in 2002), Reid was a member of al-Qaeda and had been sent on the bombing mission by Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, a senior member of the organization.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid_(shoe_bomber)

    You need to READ more and become informed before spouting such uninformed emotion filled hyper partisan hyperbole.

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    My concern here is not that the closing of Guantanamo was stopped by Congress, this may only be a bump in the road. I say that because the senators that I heard speak about their votes stated that they were against the funding because they did not get a plan for the closing by the administration. The closing could still happen after this plan is received by Congress.

    That is the issue as I see it. The Obama administration issued an executive order to close the detention center without a real plan. Obama caused the problem he now has to deal with. I think this shows a lack of knowledge and experience on an issue that a President needs to be very knowledgeable on.
    I want to address this mistaken belief and assertion because I am seeing this a lot lately:

    The Obama administration issued an executive order to close the detention center without a real plan.

    Obama didn't do this; his executive order was to assemble a "study" group to find out HOW he can close Gitmo, not actually closing it. No decision was made then, no decision has been made yet and no one has proposed what steps are to be taken to actually close it.

    This is more of the substance-less posturing one can expect from naive and inexperienced Democrat politicians who are obviously beyond their "peter principle."

    The Obama Orders: A Quick and Dirty Analysis - Brookings Institution

    then still a draft—“require[s] an immediate review of the . . . detainees still held at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, to determine if they should be transferred, released or prosecuted.” The Washington Post reported that “Officials will review the cases of the . . . prisoners who remain . . . to decide who can be released and who can be put on trial.” While literally true, this reporting rather overstates the severity of the choice Obama’s poses for each detainee.

    Obama’s order is not, in fact, a blunt instrument; in fact, it actually doesn’t do all that much. It is careful to preserve all options for each detainee. It does not require any detainee’s release or transfer. It does not require any detainee’s prosecution. It does not preclude the eventual use of military commissions or some other alternative trial venue. And, critically, it does not preclude the continued non-criminal detention of certain—perhaps many—current Guantánamo detainees.

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So a "Gentleman" calls people "hacks" and attacks posters for "bashing Obama" on a political forum?

    Bye!
    I was calling out lies, rhetoric, and grandstanding for what they were. And I will continue to do so.

    I used the word "hack" to illustrate an example, not as an insult to anyone specific - if the shoe fits, you put it on your own foot. I admit it may not have been the best word choice.

    However, this is in contrast to your insults, which were clearly directed at me - and the snippets above were only one post's worth.

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
    I was calling out lies, rhetoric, and grandstanding for what they were. And I will continue to do so.

    I used the word "hack" to illustrate an example, not as an insult to anyone specific - if the shoe fits, you put it on your own foot. I admit it may not have been the best word choice.

    However, this is in contrast to your insults, which were clearly directed at me - and the snippets above were only one post's worth.


    I only gave you what you gave me sailor.....


    the fact that Obama was rebuked by his own party, is a valid topic. You accused me of looking for an excuse to bash him. infered I was a hack. I threw it back in your face. You then stated you were leaving and taking your ball with you.....


    AKA I thought you were bowing out?


    Would you like to continue the discussion or are you leaving? Make up your mind friend.... Keep in mind, I can play this any way you like. Your call.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Just speaking to the OP, I didn't realize that that was the plan. I think I misunderstood. I thought that the plan was to transfer them one at a time, according to trial dates... once trials were resolved, then they'd bring in the next. I didn't think they were transferring every inmate at the same time. No wonder the senate voted it down.

    Gitmo, for all its disgrace, needs a gradual shutdown, mostly surrounding the completion of inmate trials.

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Just speaking to the OP, I didn't realize that that was the plan. I think I misunderstood. I thought that the plan was to transfer them one at a time, according to trial dates... once trials were resolved, then they'd bring in the next. I didn't think they were transferring every inmate at the same time. No wonder the senate voted it down.

    Gitmo, for all its disgrace, needs a gradual shutdown, mostly surrounding the completion of inmate trials.



    I can see and appreciate that.


    I do think however, Obama thought this would pass no muss no fuss, and the rebuking by his own party, will be an eyeopener for him...


    I will give him credit, in that, as far as this national security stuff, he has been more willing to adapt to what is needed a couple times as the facts present themselves.


    I hope he is more pragmatic, than first thought.

    On the other side. I think this will hurt his effort with the europeans whom he asked to take some of the detainees. If we are rightfully not willing to take them, how can he expect europe to do the same?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Senate votes to block funds for Guantanamo closure

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I guess you missed the news where Cheney has requested the Obama administration to de-classify and release that information but was refused. Hardly surprising based on your emotional hyper partisan uninformed rhetoric.



    I guess you missed the part that Reid was a British Citizen and the part where this was a failure of another countries security systems and that the flight originated in Paris France. DUH!

    I guess you also missed this;

    “…is currently serving a life sentence in the United States for attempting to destroy a commercial aircraft in-flight by detonating explosives hidden in his shoes. According to al-Qaeda operative Mohammed Mansour Jabarah (who was captured and interrogated in Oman in 2002), Reid was a member of al-Qaeda and had been sent on the bombing mission by Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, a senior member of the organization.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid_(shoe_bomber)

    You need to READ more and become informed before spouting such uninformed emotion filled hyper partisan hyperbole.
    I guess while being in such haste to force non-truth down people's thoats while ignoring the reality of things you failed to read the post where it was touted that Bush and Cheney in some way twarted the "shoe bomber". Therefore it should be added to the long long list of attacks that Bush and Cheney twarted which we all know, except you, that is a total lie.

    All you have to do is read the thread before you post. Try it? It will help you become more informed before spouting such uninformed emotion filled hyper partisian hyperbole.

    You know the truth is that if lord Cheney had proof of his successes he surely would have had it out prior to Obama becoming president.

    Cheney is sadly desperate..

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