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General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel out of

Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Maxientius said:
And are you saing you have a solider for every sq foot of your border? The US controls its border too but people slip through.
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As is quite obvious, the US does not control her borders. On the flipside, Israel does indeed control her borders. Every kilometer of border is either patroled by the Border Police and/or monitored electronically. The Border Police are a part of the IDF and they are everywhere... patroling in the cities, the countryside, and the deserts. They can demand personal identification at any time and are authorized to use lethal force.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

btw Max... ThankQ for the message. I do understand and it's not a problem.

Have a great day. :2wave:
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
As is quite obvious, the US does not control her borders. On the flipside, Israel does indeed control her borders. Every kilometer of border is either patroled by the Border Police and/or monitored electronically. The Border Police are a part of the IDF and they are everywhere... patroling in the cities, the countryside, and the deserts. They can demand personal identification at any time and are authorized to use lethal force.
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Granted, after the crackdown on illegal immigrants a fews years ago, Israel has vastly improved at keeping out illegals. But do you honestly believe that not one single illegal slips across the border?
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Maxientius said:
Granted, after the crackdown on illegal immigrants a fews years ago, Israel has vastly improved at keeping out illegals. But do you honestly believe that not one single illegal slips across the border?
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Oh it's certainly possible. But s/he could get nowhere near the Knesset complex.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
Oh it's certainly possible. But s/he could get nowhere near the Knesset complex.
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Granted, likely not, however there are many significant military and historical sites and buildings in Israel.
I would like to clerify something here. I DO NOT believe Iran could wipe out Israel in 11 days. ****, I dont think they could in 11 months. Or maybe even in 11 years. But i do think Israel must seriously consider the consequences of a preemtive strike, and therefore a war, on Iran. While Iran likely couldnt wipe Israel out for a long time, look at the long wars they've fought over the years. They wouldnt stop coming against Israel. Israel could start a very long and very costly war.
But i do think Israel, in the afore mentioned war, could defeat Iran. I dont think its likely without foreign aid but i must admit that Israel is one seriously badass nation when it comes to war. They have advantages over Iran and history shows they are damn good at exploiting advantages.
:blastem:
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Just for the record, I also do not favor a preemptive attack. But I do believe the international community has been too slow and timid in attempts to curb Iran's march towards nuclear weapons.

If Iran is successful, you may see nuclear proliferation in the ME on a grand scale. Saudi Arabia and Egypt already have fledging programs. Numerous nuclear armed nations huddled in perhaps the most volatile region in the world is a recipe for disaster. Remember, the dangers of a mistake, an accident, or a non-state acquisition increase expoentially with proliferation.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
Just for the record, I also do not favor a preemptive attack. But I do believe the international community has been too slow and timid in attempts to curb Iran's march towards nuclear weapons.

If Iran is successful, you may see nuclear proliferation in the ME on a grand scale. Saudi Arabia and Egypt already have fledging programs. Numerous nuclear armed nations huddled in perhaps the most volatile region in the world is a recipe for disaster. Remember, the dangers of a mistake, an accident, or a non-state acquisition increase expoentially with proliferation.
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I agree almost entirely. The problem is, how do we solve this? The UN cannot force all Middle Eastern countries to stop carrying nukes or allow only Israel to have them and without them Israel could be in very serious trouble.
Any attempt to stop the sale or production of Nuclear Materials or any weapons for that matter to or in Iran would be vetoed by Russia or China.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
Just for the record, I also do not favor a preemptive attack. But I do believe the international community has been too slow and timid in attempts to curb Iran's march towards nuclear weapons.

If Iran is successful, you may see nuclear proliferation in the ME on a grand scale. Saudi Arabia and Egypt already have fledging programs. Numerous nuclear armed nations huddled in perhaps the most volatile region in the world is a recipe for disaster. Remember, the dangers of a mistake, an accident, or a non-state acquisition increase expoentially with proliferation.
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Nuclear weapons are proliferating because the ME nations are trying to balance power with Israel and the U.S. If the U.S. had stopped supporting Israel earlier on, we would not be seeing so many powers grappling for nuclear deterrence. Now pandoras box is about to be opened.

Secondary to that, the major powers in the world already set the example a long time ago. They demonstrated that if you have nuclear weapons, you'll get a seat on the UN Security Council, and you'll be able to have a more powerful voice in international policy. If the arrogant UN superpowers had allowed non-nuclear nations onto the council, such as Japan or Germany, it would have shown a better example.

Instead, fledgling powers have been taught, by us, that nuclear arms are the route to security, bargaining, and rivalry with one's enemies. If the ME is blown up, it's our fault just as much as it is theirs. Now all we can do is wait for the Israel/U.S. alliance to come full swing and blow up in everyone's faces.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Orius said:
Nuclear weapons are proliferating because the ME nations are trying to balance power with Israel and the U.S. If the U.S. had stopped supporting Israel earlier on, we would not be seeing so many powers grappling for nuclear deterrence. Now pandoras box is about to be opened.

Secondary to that, the major powers in the world already set the example a long time ago. They demonstrated that if you have nuclear weapons, you'll get a seat on the UN Security Council, and you'll be able to have a more powerful voice in international policy. If the arrogant UN superpowers had allowed non-nuclear nations onto the council, such as Japan or Germany, it would have shown a better example.

Instead, fledgling powers have been taught, by us, that nuclear arms are the route to security, bargaining, and rivalry with one's enemies. If the ME is blown up, it's our fault just as much as it is theirs. Now all we can do is wait for the Israel/U.S. alliance to come full swing and blow up in everyone's faces.
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1)The US couldnt simply abandon Israel.

2)Of course. What do you expect? Nuclear countries are mopre powerful and dangerous and so will naturally be allowed on and to have a greater voice. Nations are all arrogant (nationalism my friend) but i must admit that Iran, Israel, and North Korea are by far the most.

3)The alliance is a positive thing and the only thing keeping the Middle East from warring like mad.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Orius said:
Nuclear weapons are proliferating because the ME nations are trying to balance power with Israel and the U.S. If the U.S. had stopped supporting Israel earlier on, we would not be seeing so many powers grappling for nuclear deterrence. Now pandoras box is about to be opened.
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I disagree strongly. Israel has had nuclear capability for decades. The Muslim world did acquire a nuclear power in Pakistan, and there the problems began with the A. Q. Khan / North Korea syndicate of weapons and missile prolifertaion.

With their oil wealth, Arab nations such as the Kingdom could have developed or purchased nuclear know-how long ago to balance the equation with Israel. They chose not to even consider this until very recently. It is only with the emergence of Shia Iran as a nuclear power that the Arab Sunni nations feel exposed and vulnerable. The Sunni Arab nations now fear a nuclear Iran far more than they ever feared a nuclear Israel.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
It is only with the emergence of Shia Iran as a nuclear power that the Arab Sunni nations feel exposed and vulnerable. The Sunni Arab nations now fear a nuclear Iran far more than they ever feared a nuclear Israel.
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I have to quote that for truth.
Muslim or no. We'd rather the Jews kept the Nukes compared to Shia's. No offence Iran but we just don't trust you

If Iran gets Nukes, it would start a arms race on Sunni countries as they'd now be squeezed in between two non arab nucleur countries.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Laila said:
I have to quote that for truth.
Muslim or no. We'd rather the Jews kept the Nukes compared to Shia's. No offence Iran but we just don't trust you

If Iran gets Nukes, it would start a arms race on Sunni countries as they'd now be squeezed in between two non arab nucleur countries.
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Very true.

The SHiite ****bags in Iran cannot be trusted. Of this, there can be NO DOUBT.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
I disagree strongly. Israel has had nuclear capability for decades. The Muslim world did acquire a nuclear power in Pakistan, and there the problems began with the A. Q. Khan / North Korea syndicate of weapons and missile prolifertaion.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty#India.2C_Israel_and_Pakistan said:
Three states—India, Israel, and Pakistan—have declined to sign the treaty. India and Pakistan are confirmed nuclear powers, and Israel has a long-standing policy of deliberate ambiguity (see List of countries with nuclear weapons). These countries argue that the NPT creates a club of "nuclear haves" and a larger group of "nuclear have-nots" by restricting the legal possession of nuclear weapons to those states that tested them before 1967, but the treaty never explains on what ethical grounds such a distinction is valid.
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Like I said... the superpowers set the standard for others to ignore requests to not develop nuclear weapons. And, unlike the other nations cited, Israel has had help from the U.S in its weapons programs.

Tashah said:
With their oil wealth, Arab nations such as the Kingdom could have developed or purchased nuclear know-how long ago to balance the equation with Israel. They chose not to even consider this until very recently. It is only with the emergence of Shia Iran as a nuclear power that the Arab Sunni nations feel exposed and vulnerable. The Sunni Arab nations now fear a nuclear Iran far more than they ever feared a nuclear Israel.
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You're blaming it on the emergence of the Shia in Iran, but they've had influence for longer than the past 10 years. So what changed? The answer is the increased presence of Western powers and the threats to nationality sovereignty. No one wants to be susceptible to an invasion on something as flimsy as terrorism. Iraq didn't even have nukes and it was invaded. So what is there to protect the others? The Iraq invasion showed that the West is terrified of nuclear weapons and that once you have them you can't be touched.

Not to mention, the U.S. backs Israel's flouting of international law (in the form of expansion of settlements). If an ME power can expand its territory as long as it has Western consent, then that is a further incentive to want nuclear deterrence.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Orius said:
And, unlike the other nations cited, Israel has had help from the U.S in its weapons programs.
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The US never assisted Israel in developing a nuclear weapon. Provide cites please.

Orius said:
Not to mention, the U.S. backs Israel's flouting of international law (in the form of expansion of settlements). If an ME power can expand its territory as long as it has Western consent, then that is a further incentive to want nuclear deterrence.
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US encourages Israel to end settlelent expansion

The US neither approves of nor encourages settlement expansion. This was deliniated in the original Road Map markers and nothing has changed in this regard. Once again, citations please.
 
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Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
The US never assisted Israel in developing a nuclear weapon. Provide cites please.
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That's not what I meant. The U.S. is shielding Israel from any international action to inpsect its weapons. You know this, I know this.

Furthermore, Western powers actively sell Israel weapons. Even Canada does. It's no secret. Why is Israel, a nation with questionable intergrity, the only ME nation to receive weapons and aid from the West?

Tashah said:
US encourages Israel to end settlelent expansion

The US neither approves of nor encourages settlement expansion. This was deliniated in the original Road Map markers and nothing has changed in this regard. Once again, citations please.
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U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel

Dozens of security council vetos by the U.S. preventing expansion of Israeli settlements into the Gaza strip say otherwise.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Orius said:
That's not what I meant. The U.S. is shielding Israel from any international action to inpsect its weapons. You know this, I know this.
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The UN controls the IAEA, not the US. Israel is not and never was a party to the NPT. You know this, I know this.

Orius said:
Furthermore, Western powers actively sell Israel weapons. Even Canada does. It's no secret. Why is Israel, a nation with questionable intergrity, the only ME nation to receive weapons and aid from the West?
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If you want questionable integrity, look within. Iraq. CIA renditions. Torture. etc.

Israel is the only ME nation to receive Western weapons and aid? You live in a fantasy world. With perhaps the exception of Syria, I can't think of one.

Orius said:
Dozens of security council vetos by the U.S. preventing expansion of Israeli settlements into the Gaza strip say otherwise.
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I gave you a link that is less than a month old. Is the Washington Post in error? Is the US State Department lying? Israel removed a new settlement just last week. In addition, Israel completely pulled out of the Gaza Strip in 2005.

Do you have anything at all to contribute to the thread topic? If not, you are engaged in derailing.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Moderator's Warning:
Folks, let's stay on the topic, one that is more focused on Iran's actions, than Israel's.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
The UN controls the IAEA, not the US. Israel is not and never was a party to the NPT. You know this, I know this.
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The UN SC can call for an inspection to ensure the security status of weapons, or even their existence. Israel to this day remains ambiguous in its statements on possessing them, but it's considered to be a power that has them. Any attempt to dig deeper is blocked by the U.S.

With all the accusations of weapons ending up in the wrong hands, why is Israel not part of that discourse? It has its hands into everything, just like the other ME nations. Why does Israel get to have them but not Iran?

Tashah said:
If you want questionable integrity, look within. Iraq. CIA renditions. Torture. etc.
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You don't have to bring other nations into this. I never claimed Iraq or anyone else was a shining example, but let's not put Israel on a pedestle.

Tashah said:
Israel is the only ME nation to receive Western weapons and aid? You live in a fantasy world. With perhaps the exception of Syria, I can't think of one.
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To the degree Israel does? No way. Israel is a super power for a reason, and it didn't get there under its own ability.

Tashah said:
I gave you a link that is less than a month old. Is the Washington Post in error? Is the US State Department lying? Israel removed a new settlement just last week. In addition, Israel completely pulled out of the Gaza Strip in 2005.
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I read the article and I understand. I'm not denying the current strategy, but you can't ignore historical precedent in this debate. U.S. foreign policy is a flip flopping one.

Tashah said:
Do you have anything at all to contribute to the thread topic? If not, you are engaged in derailing.
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Are you serious? Look, I realize it's taboo to criticize Israel in front of Americans, but I don't really care.

I was originally responding to what you said about fledgeling nuclear programs in the ME. There are all of these calls to do something about it now, but no one is addressing the historical precedent for why so many countries there even want them.

If people want ME nations to stop grasping for nuclear arms, then we in the West must set a better example and stop altering the balance of power by putting all our chips into one nation. The other nations are just trying to balance power, that's it.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Orius said:
If people want ME nations to stop grasping for nuclear arms, then we in the West must set a better example and stop altering the balance of power by putting all our chips into one nation. The other nations are just trying to balance power, that's it.
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If the West wants to set a better example, it can certainly begin with its own nuclear weapons stockpiles. There is no reason whatsoever why the US needs 10,000 nuclear warheads in its arsenal. The West can also stop selling and exporting nuclear technology to second and third world nations without any meaningful safeguards in place. It seems to me that when it comes to the West and technology, capitalism almost always trumps ethics.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
If the West wants to set a better example, it can certainly begin with its own nuclear weapons stockpiles. There is no reason whatsoever why the US needs 10,000 nuclear warheads in its arsenal. The West can also stop selling and exporting nuclear technology to second and third world nations without any meaningful safeguards in place. It seems to me that when it comes to the West and technology, capitalism almost always trumps ethics.
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I agree wholeheartedly.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Tashah said:
If the West wants to set a better example, it can certainly begin with its own nuclear weapons stockpiles. There is no reason whatsoever why the US needs 10,000 nuclear warheads in its arsenal. The West can also stop selling and exporting nuclear technology to second and third world nations without any meaningful safeguards in place. It seems to me that when it comes to the West and technology, capitalism almost always trumps ethics.
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Orius said:
I agree wholeheartedly.
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And what in the world would that do? Other countries would suddenly follow our example and reduce their stockpiles of non-existent nuclear weapons? Other countries would feel less threatened because now we can only destroy the world twice over?

I'm really at a loss what you HONESTLY think such an example would achieve?
 
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Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Well, that's 10 days too many for as sure as day one rolls out, on day two Iran would be laid to waste and rubble. It would be suicide on their part.
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Captain America said:
General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

Well, that's 10 days too many for as sure as day one rolls out, on day two Iran would be laid to waste and rubble. It would be suicide on their part.
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are their enough virgins in the afterlife for such an event? :2razz:
 
Re: General commander of the Iranian army: It will take us 11 days "to wipe Israel ou

UtahBill said:
are their enough virgins in the afterlife for such an event? :2razz:
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Iran knows they're no match for the USA and Israel.

They will not cause any issues!

They WILL behave because the alternative is Iran becoming a glowing sheet of glass.
 
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