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Thread: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    The other car companies are debatable, but when it comes to GM, I have no sympathy. In Canada, the CAW are the most unabashedly greedy bunch of freeloaders I have ever seen. The line workers get paid $16/hr. to start and go on strike to get more. It's no wonder companies want to outsource. Consumers then pay the price hike on the cars because the union is never satisfied. No one wants to pay more for a standard vehicle, just so that line workers with a grade eight education can make more and more money, just because.

    GM deserves to go under. Its management is spineless for giving in to the CAW every single time they cry, and that's why the CAW continues to do it; and the CAW is the root of the problem.
    Ever see the news reports when GM lays off workers, and there is an interview with the poor UAW/CAW worker standing in front of his 3 story house with the boat and RV out front, crying how he does not know how he will ever get by?

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Ever see the news reports when GM lays off workers, and there is an interview with the poor UAW/CAW worker standing in front of his 3 story house with the boat and RV out front, crying how he does not know how he will ever get by?
    I've argued face to face with the workers in person (a couple of family members work for GM), and they always claim the same thing: work conditions are harsh both on the body and mind, so pay has to reflect that. They always compare their work to cushy office jobs and say that they deserve more pay.

    But the truth is that car plant manufacturing is one of the last high paying jobs for people with little to no education. Everywhere else they would get minimum wage, even in other modern factories that do similar kinds of labour, and the GM workers know it. Their wage levels are sustained by the fact that the CAW existed early on, back in the days when you could walk down the street after quitting a job and get a new job instantly with next to no qualifications. So factories actually had to compete for skilled labour with wage increases. Those who offered the most pay got the most workers and had higher production levels.

    If they were a newer company with a younger union, there would be no precedent for the kinds of demands we are seeing from the CAW. Their greed is insatiable and unjustifiable.

    Mind you, I don't just blame the unions for GM's downfall, but they play a bill role for sure.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I've argued face to face with the workers in person (a couple of family members work for GM), and they always claim the same thing: work conditions are harsh both on the body and mind, so pay has to reflect that. They always compare their work to cushy office jobs and say that they deserve more pay.
    I would reply to that, but the language filter would block it. I have done part sorts in UAW factories, and the work conditions there are better than at the supplies I have worked for, and we make noticeably less, and with a benefit package that is not even in the same league, though still perfectly acceptable. I know a couple journeymen machinists who make less than a line worker for GM.

    But the truth is that car plant manufacturing is one of the last high paying jobs for people with little to no education. Everywhere else they would get minimum wage, even in other modern factories that do similar kinds of labour, and the GM workers know it. Their wage levels are sustained by the fact that the CAW existed early on, back in the days when you could walk down the street after quitting a job and get a new job instantly with next to no qualifications. So factories actually had to compete for skilled labour with wage increases. Those who offered the most pay got the most workers and had higher production levels.
    At tier 1 suppliers, we make a decent living wage, bordering on quite good when times are busy. I really do appreciate the auto industry, it has been good to me.

    If they were a newer company with a younger union, there would be no precedent for the kinds of demands we are seeing from the CAW. Their greed is insatiable and unjustifiable.

    Mind you, I don't just blame the unions for GM's downfall, but they play a bill role for sure.
    GM's downfall took a whole committee, combined with an economic meltdown. The UAW/CAW has it's share of the blame(and not just for wage/benefit packages), but GM management has it's share too. My one hope is that when this is all done, GM and Chrysler and the unions will be smarter going forward.

    Ok, yeah, I am dreaming...

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    My one hope is that when this is all done, GM and Chrysler and the unions will be smarter going forward.

    Ok, yeah, I am dreaming...
    If the dollar forces them to, they'll reform... otherwise pass me your pipe.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    You have an evidence he is lying? Didn't think so.


    .
    Since he never provided evidence of all the others closing, it is not my jojb to prove his point, it is his.

    Let's see his proof that all the other dealerships in his area are closing but GM.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    I don't think Obama and clan had any real interest in fixing the problem..they simply wanted to get their people on the inside so that they can take direct control.

    Look at most of their "solutions" across the board and you see them weasling their ways into nationalizing everything without admitting that is what they are doing.
    While an interesting observation, the facts illustrate that the opposite is true.

    What I recall is Big 3 auto flying their private jets to Washington begging for a government handout - several times.

    While I fervently wish these failed companies wouldn't have gotten a cent of my tax dollars, the decision was made to do so and therefore government has every right to step in and call the shots. Obama in fact expressed reluctance to do so.

    That's hardly "weaseling" their way in.

    This is common knowledge, but if you'd like links I'd be happy to provide them.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Since he never provided evidence of all the others closing, it is not my jojb to prove his point, it is his.

    Let's see his proof that all the other dealerships in his area are closing but GM.
    So you admit you called him a liar without any evidence. Seems that makes you the liar, ... but that was already common knowledge.

    .

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    So you admit you called him a liar without any evidence. Seems that makes you the liar, ... but that was already common knowledge.

    .
    I admit you are a troll that isn't interested in debate and just insults people yes.

    Not believing what someone says does not make them automatically a liar, but then you already knew that and are just trolling.

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes, it's All Obama's fault, NONE of it is with the car companies though and how they got in the situation in the first place though right?

    I suppose you'll blame Obama for 9/11 next. That's the next logical step for some radical conservatives.
    Children and immature "adults" engage in the blame game...
    Detroit's problems began 50 years ago.....
    For all the good it does, my heart weeps for Michigan....
    The UAW, a thing of the past, made necessary by business's lack of respect of the working man...
    Has business learned ???

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    Re: GM bankruptcy seen as all but inevitable

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I admit you are a troll that isn't interested in debate and just insults people yes.

    ...
    Projecting again, I see.

    .

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