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Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts

danarhea

danarhea

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Bush maintained that this was never a war on Islam, and Obama maintains the same thing. But pictures annotated with biblical text are going to give America a black eye because it gives an appearance that it was otherwise.

I believe not so much that Bush lied, but that he was betrayed by those he trusted.

Article is here.
 
danarhea said:
I believe not so much that Bush lied, but that he was betrayed by those he trusted.
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Bush certainly did lie. However, more than being betrayed I believe his stupidity was used by his puppet masters. He was very much on board with what his underlings were doing. But, he was led by the nose into areas he probably wouldn't have ventured on his own. His need to be coddled by the neo-cons will in the end be the reason for his downfall. And yes, they did use religion to lure him to authorize their plans and methods. He is a sad excuse for an American President.
 
ZOMG! THOSE DAMNED DIRTY SOBS! HOW DARE THEY?

Shown to only a small circle of senior advisers, the pages were first used on the eve of the 2003 invasion and were designed to provide support and encouragement to Mr Bush, a Christian who often cited the Bible while in office.
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Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts - Telegraph

THE HELLS? And this guy, who came up with the idea... what a damned dirty ape!

The Biblical passages were reportedly the idea of Maj Gen Glen Shaffer, a senior military intelligence official, and a Christian, who told colleagues that his "seniors" including the president, were grateful for the cover pages.
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You guys need to grow up.
 
And?

So what if Rumsfeld put Biblical quotes on the cover pages? Regardless of one's view about the Bible and/or Christianity, such adornments are just that--adornments. They are a stylistic conceit, nothing more.

If Rumsfeld put Biblical quotes in the body of his papers, as substance and justification, then I would be concerned.

People wishing to make points will quote the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, the Sutras, and the collected works of William Shakespeare--they will use literary sources to leverage the metaphors and figurative language of literature. That is how language and literature are used--and how they are meant to be used.
 
celticlord said:
And?

So what if Rumsfeld put Biblical quotes on the cover pages? Regardless of one's view about the Bible and/or Christianity, such adornments are just that--adornments. They are a stylistic conceit, nothing more.

If Rumsfeld put Biblical quotes in the body of his papers, as substance and justification, then I would be concerned.

People wishing to make points will quote the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, the Sutras, and the collected works of William Shakespeare--they will use literary sources to leverage the metaphors and figurative language of literature. That is how language and literature are used--and how they are meant to be used.
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To some their adornments, to others mandates. I don't care if individuals put a religious spin on this; but not the government. The government is forbidden from that, we're not theocracy. What I don't want is for our government in insinuate in the slightest that an actual war where we spending way too much American life, money, and equipment could be connected with any form of god. Wars are devices of man and need to be that way, we can't start thinking that we've been given divine orders. That's when things go very bad. And what the hell would Christianity want to be associated with wars for? It's not specifically a war like religion, not if you're going on the teachings of Jesus Christ.
 
celticlord said:
And?

So what if Rumsfeld put Biblical quotes on the cover pages? Regardless of one's view about the Bible and/or Christianity, such adornments are just that--adornments. They are a stylistic conceit, nothing more.

If Rumsfeld put Biblical quotes in the body of his papers, as substance and justification, then I would be concerned.
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I wonder what I should think of the little doodles of naked women WJBC scribblesd on his copy of the text of the address he made when he went to war with Iraq in December 1998.
 
danarhea said:
Bush maintained that this was never a war on Islam, and Obama maintains the same thing. But pictures annotated with biblical text are going to give America a black eye because it gives an appearance that it was otherwise.

I believe not so much that Bush lied, but that he was betrayed by those he trusted.

Article is here.
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Why is anyone supposed to care?
 
Jerry said:
Why is anyone supposed to care?
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It's just more proof of what we already knew, that Cheney and Rumsfeld considered Bush a simpleton. All they needed from him was presidential approval, his signature on their agenda, and to achieve that they approached him on a "gut" level, including the placement of biblical quotes on his briefing papers.
 
WillRockwell said:
It's just more proof of what we already knew, that Cheney and Rumsfeld considered Bush a simpleton. All they needed from him was presidential approval, his signature on their agenda, and to achieve that they approached him on a "gut" level, including the placement of biblical quotes on his briefing papers.
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Well, ok, but they're not in office anymore, so.....who cares?
 
Jerry said:
Well, ok, but they're not in office anymore, so.....who cares?
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They may not be in office any more, but their policies certainly have had effect after they left office. That is why they remain an issue.
 
danarhea said:
They may not be in office any more, but their policies certainly have had effect after they left office. That is why they remain an issue.
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Ok...and how does scripture imposed on a few pictures affect policy?

Can you quote a Bush policy with scripture in it?
 
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danarhea said:
They may not be in office any more, but their policies certainly have had effect after they left office. That is why they remain an issue.
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The main point to all of this, in my opinion, is that Iraq was seen as a potential weak target, that once occupied would allow for base set-up on Iran's door. This places the military is a wonderful spot to take control of oil supplies if so needed (War with China), and places us in close proximity to Israel. Thus, if Iran attacks Israel, the U.S. may invade rapidly. All of the spiritual things I think were for internal administration sake and nothing more.
 
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Ikari said:
To some their adornments, to others mandates.
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Not as described. Imputing religious mandate to every reference to Scripture is absurd.

It's an adornment. No more, no less.

Which makes this a non-issue. No more, no less.
 
If Rummy had used Bible verses as bullet points within the memo, I would have a care. As it stands, he used them as a personal encouragement with no more significance outside the office than a cartoon passed around to brighten everyone's day a little.

In other words, what the **** ever.
 
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I don't even begin to see why this would be an issue. From the article, the 2 examples where totally inoffensive and had no negatives really associated with them. Combine that with the fact that they where not intended for distribution outside a few people, and I am not seeing the problem here. It's not like he used religion to justify the war, more as something to comfort President Bush in his decision kinda thing.

I am all for criticizing President Bush and Rumsfeld, but I would prefer that it was actually over something legit. This is barely more important that telepromptergate.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
So then ban government officials from being religious.
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You cannot ban -anyone- from being religious as it would violate the 1st amendment.

Like it or not, people with religious views will always be part of the government, and will, at times, lean on those religious views for personal solace or support or the personal support of others. Apparently, that's all Rumsfeld did here.
 
You cannot ban -anyone- from being religious as it would violate the 1st amendment.

Like it or not, people with religious views will always be part of the government, and will, at times, lean on those religious views for personal solace or support or the personal support of others. Apparently, that's all Rumsfeld did here.
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That was my point.
 
The Old Testament God loved the Bush Administration. The New Testament God will send the lot of them to Hell.
 
Islamic practitioners the USA and its allies are waging a war upon the radical of your faith.
With the Sword of God Almighty Himself we shall flay and purge the sinners of Allah amongst you.
Don't like it kill them yourselves.

OMG!..run around in circles with scissors crying..knock it off. This is about as crybaby as the cartoon BS.



Oh btw Pelosi is still in trouble..funny how this makes news. :2fog:

//////////////////////////

The War.

IS a religious war and always has been..wake up.
How dumb can people be not to realize or accept that by now.
:whothere:


We are fighting over territorial control with al Qaeda&Friends across a significant chunk of Asia and Africa to stop them and their allies installing their form of Islam over those places. Because it will obviously lead to them using it to purge the world of the non-believers.
The non-belivers are us.
YOU are on one side of a religious war or the other.
"With us or against us"

Bush didn't start it nor did he make it religious in nature.
Our enemies did that.
 
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Triad, I got to disagree with you on this. I know, you are shocked by that.

I think that some within the Muslim world view it as a religious war against us. That seems pretty much self evident. I don't think that, so far, we are engaging in a religious war against them, nor should we.

To clarify: those attacking us are the enemy. I think we can both agree on that. We don't need to classify them by their religion, only that they attack us. I think we risk, if we do classify the enemy by their religion, making additional enemies where they do not currently exist. I don't have a real issue making extra enemies if the cause is good, but in this case, it is unnecessary. A secular war against those who declare themselves our enemies by their actions is good enough.

None of this changes the fact that I cannot see, based on the reports on this topic, that Rumsfeld was in any way trying to make this a religious war. It is pretty common and acceptable to use religion for comfort and strength in doing difficult tasks.
 
Of course, I cannot dare to see those SECRET papers and the notes and the pictures.

No.


No way.

Not even a glance.


Not even a photoshop.


I just have to believe.

Can somebody post at least Photoshop pictures with Photoshop Scriptures on/under/above them?

can it be moved to Conspiracy theories?
 
jallman said:
If Rummy had used Bible verses as bullet points within the memo, I would have a care. As it stands, he used them as a personal encouragement with no more significance outside the office than a cartoon passed around to brighten everyone's day a little.

In other words, what the **** ever.
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The Iraq war was suposedly fought because Saddam Hussein posed an "imminent threat" to the security of the United States. Now we see these little passages, cherry-picked from the Bible to synchronize with the actions of our military. The obvious appearance is that we are fighting a "holy war". It looks a lot like the Crusades. It is not what was sold to the American people. It is wrong. It is further proof that the previous administration violated their oaths of office and misused the armed forces. We must understand how these people did these things so it can never happen again.
 
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